Qigong Roundtable: Why Do Some People Heal And Others Don’t?

Zhineng Qigong serves as a transformative practice that emphasizes holistic healing, but why do some heal from their disease and others don’t?

Is it that some set stronger intentions than others? Is fear blocking the Qi flow, causing a somatic separation? Is it resistance of the ego? A jaded reference framework? Is it persistence because of our life’s purpose or is it down to surrendered acceptance?

In this special episode of our Qigong podcast, features Britta Stalling, Debra Weisenburger-Lipetz, Federico García and Ronit Adar sharing insight on one of life’s biggest questions.

Intention plays a crucial role in the healing process, as emphasized by Britta. She notes that while many individuals claim a desire to heal, the depth of their intention often varies. Britta illustrates this with examples of two Qigong practitioners facing similar health challenges; one’s powerful life intention led to significant healing, while the other’s doubts and fears impeded progress.

Having healed from stage 4 breast cancer, Qigong teacher, Debra highlights the importance of addressing emotional blockages such as fear and worry, which can create densities that hinder healing. She argues that too much focus on illness detracts from understanding the holistic nature of health, suggesting that a strong foundation built through the Qigong practice allows individuals to connect with their true selves.

Federico, having also faced his own health challenges with Multiple Sclerosis (MS), echoes Debra's sentiments. He notes the importance of shifting attention away from fear and anxiety toward a mindset of joy and peace can also promote healing. A radical acceptance is also important to stay whole and unified, for it's disturbances such as stress that complicate the healing process. Where mind, body, and spirit are aligned - suffering cannot ensue.

Self-awareness in the healing process, is important for Ronit, having healed from rheumatoid arthritis through Zhineng Qigong. Understanding who you truly are is foundational to overcoming the fear, that often stems from a lack of self-knowledge. This separation from one's true self can lead to suffering. Ronit emphasizes self-honesty to understand ego's impact on experiences. 

One question with many answers, we can agree that healing is deeper than physical symptoms; it encompasses rebuilding trust—trust in life and in one’s own purpose, in the belief that our path is set.

Mindful Moments:

• Qigong & Healing: Personal experiences show Zhineng Qigong's healing potential
• Intention can affect healing outcomes
• Acceptance Heals: Radical acceptance promotes wholeness
• Emotional Blocks: Fear and worry can hinder healing and Qi flow
• Mind-Body-Spirit Alignment: Reduces suffering and promotes wholeness
• Persistence is Key: Never give up on your healing journey

Links & Resources:
Discover Qigong Game: https://tinyurl.com/ymuywb6x
Why Some Heal: https://t.ly/k8-7A

Disclaimer: This content is for informational purposes only and does not constitute medical advice

🎙️🌟Explore more podcasts, events, and resources visit:
https://www.zhineng-qigong-students-hub.com/

📘📚 Get your FREE E-book on the "Eight verses meditation" by Dr Pang:
https://www.zhineng-qigong-students-hub.com/exploration-of-the-eight-verses-of-zhineng-qigong-meditation-e-book

Connect on Facebook, Instagram, Youtube

Transcript

For some of us, this is a question of life and death. Why do some people heal and others don't? For the first time in this podcast, I've invited a number of distinguished teachers to discuss this topic of highest importance. Let us welcome Debra Weisenburger Lipetz, Ronit Adar, Britta Stalling, and Federico García. My name is Torsten Lueddecke and this is the Wisdom Qigong Podcast. 

The information and views provided in this episode are personal opinions, not medical advice.

Welcome everyone to this special edition of Wisdom Qigong Uncovered. This is a special edition because for the first time I have more than one guest. I have four distinguished Qigong teachers and healers around the table and I've invited them because today I want to look into a question that's not only close to my heart but that is a question of life and death for many of us.

And that question is why do some people heal And others don't. So here is my round of guests. I'm very, very grateful to all four of you that you have joined. We have Debra, Debra Weisenburger Lipetz with us. Debra is one of the very few teachers in the West that has actually been to the famous medicine-less hospital, the Huaxia Center.

And she's been personally introduced to Dr. Pang. So she obviously is a very special guest here today. Thank you very much for joining Debra. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm, I'm excited to be here. See what transpires. Then we've got a Britta Stalling here. Many of you in the community might know Britta because, many years ago, I think it's more than a decade now, she has set up a program to take together with a master Huantong Liu, where they are teaching people in the West, the techniques that they used at the Huaxia center.

So basically she's educating therapists. And so that they can work with their people, with their patients and students in order to heal. Welcome, Britta. Thanks a lot, Torsten, for the great invitation and also the beautiful topic, which I think will inspire many listeners. And thank you to my colleagues around the world.

I'm very excited to be with you together and explore this very important question together to give some insights and inspiration to all our listeners. Thank you. And then we've got Ronit Adar with us. Ronit has been a very successful guest on the podcast before, because Ronit is one of the major people these days that actually organizes and takes people, to China.

to healing retreats, to centers, to healing centers. So she is cooperating a lot with the Xian Center, with the Hainan Center. So Ronit is the person who's currently taking all these people into these healing centers that are kind of the succession of the Huaxia Center. Welcome Ronit. Thank you very, very much.

I'm also very happy to be here. I'm honored. And I think it's a very, very important topic. I hope it will help. And then we've got Federico Garcia with us. Federico is currently studying the ideas of Qineng Qigong and how they relate to the Western ideas of, how do you say that exactly? Stress physiology.

Stress physiology. Physiology of stress. Thank you very much for being with us today, Federico. Yes, thank you. It's very nice. I haven't met, Thanks Many of you and I'm very open to and very curious to your perspective on the topic. Why do some people heal and others don't? And I think we should jump right into it.

Debra, what is your take on that question? Why do some people heal and others don't? Well, first of all, it's a major question that I have wondered about my, my entire career as a Chenan Qigong teacher and practitioner. What I have discovered through my own experiences, because I, I did heal from stage four cancer, and I realized that for myself, that carried a great deal of guilt, because years ago, I did not understand why I healed and others did not, so now I'm beginning to have a broader understanding.

And. Just quickly, because we all need to speak, but from my own experience, I realized that perhaps we pay too much emphasis on illness. And not enough emphasis on worry, stress, as Federico, has suggested, and, fear. So, those are the things that really block and create densities and really create fear.

Illness. So those may be things we would want to look at and I think it all starts with a good foundation and, the good foundation we acquire through our practice, working from the inside out, not the outside in, and it takes time for some people, a moment for some people months, but to be patient with ourselves.

And not take ourselves so seriously. and move forward from there. Ronit, from your experience, how do you see things? For me,

first of all, I've also been with this question a lot, and I am in everyday life with the people I work with and with myself. And for me, I think the main thing that is connected to what Debra said, but really understanding who we are. It's, I, from my point of view, I think it's a conscious, it's a conscious, issue and fear and stress and all the other emotions and burden we have in our life starts from not really understanding who we really are and the transformation needed is so deep that I think this is the main cause.

And

maybe that's what I'll say for now, for the beginning. Okay. Thank you very much. Britta, when you look at your Huyuan Qi Therapy therapy program, is that something you actually teach in the program or are you focusing more on, you know, on other work? Related to why people heal and why people don't heal. What do you mean?

Well, or discovering, you know, discovering who you really are when I, when I look at the point here. Oh, yes. Of course. No, of course. It's a very important point. I think everything was on it and Debra has shared so very meaningful and I'm happy to build on it. And I would like to actually bring the conversation maybe to another aspect of why people heal and others don't, because out of my observation, it has often a lot to do with it.

Thank you. The power of intention so that if people are really honest and and that's related also to what Ronit and Debra have shared, you know, do we know ourselves good enough that we can honestly say we do have. the intention to heal. And obviously, everybody who's on this path of self healing would say, yes, of course, of course.

Otherwise I wouldn't do this workshop or otherwise I wouldn't have a session with Ronit or with Debra. Of course I want to heal. But then you take it a step deeper and you ask more questions and then you might find that one person really means it and has a very powerful intention to heal. And I can give an example actually for my network.

And another person just says it, but they are underlying, subconscious limitations or thought patterns or habits, which are actually in the way of manifesting that intention. And the person is not willing yet to really take a closer look and overcome then, that particular behavior. Maybe it's a belief, maybe it's a distrust, no, not feeling really confident.

And I can bring in one example of two people having the same diagnosis. It's an eye illness, eyes illness. And one person, both are genetic practitioners, both know the art of Natural healing and self healing. And also they know they the power of practice. They're willing to practice. But one has a very powerful intention.

He's a pilot, and he clearly wants to fly until he's dead. I mean, until his last breath. That's really his intention. So he's willing to practice on a joyful deeper level because he is understanding that the power of his intention is carrying him through until the day he has healed his eyesight. And let's say, I don't know the exact number of months, but maybe one year later, he's having another exam and his eyesight is back to normal.

And the other person also has a healing intention, but it's doubtful, you know, because the symptoms of bad eyesight and particularly that, effect side effects of this, illness, reminds her each day that I do have the symptoms and how, how can I heal? So there is a dedication to practice, but practice, but not so deep, not so regular based on also the lack of a powerful intention for life.

So why do I want to heal? And that obviously is a question everybody has to find the answer for themselves. That's why it's also a complex topic. And you cannot really say, you know, this is, this is the particular reason, but I would like to bring in the power of intention and invite practitioners, people who are on the journey of self healing to really reflect on that and otherwise reach out to, One of us or another genetic teacher or therapist who can help clarifying the power of intention.

We have a way you can discover Qigong. So at the Zhineng Qigong student hub, we know that understanding Qigong It's very important, and also that Zhineng Qigong in itself has various nuances that people can't easily comprehend. So we've approached it in the style of a video game. On this page, Discover Qigong you can select your character.

So you can either be a beginner, a practitioner, or a holistic healer or self healer. And you click on your character and it takes you to these different sections. In these sections, you can explore the nuances and when you click on a card, all of the resources pop up and we've made it really fun and not many people know about it.

So if you are interested, have a look and discover Qigong. Thank you, Britta. Maybe Federico, it's your turn now. I was already thinking of you when Debra spoke about all these emotions like, you know, fear, anxiety. And when we talk about stress, obviously, this is where all of these things, these factors come in.

So what's your take on the situation? My take is, like the question for this, topic that you brought, which is great. I would turn it. Why do I would, instead of saying, why do people do not heal? I turn it inside. Why do I, I not heal? Why am I not whole? And because, of course, that is my experience. Any of us who have, not had perfect health or well being will be focusing on that.

So, for myself, I discovered, you know, having really terrible diagnoses, many at the same time, that, of course, from fear, you're going to focus on the disease, the illness, just like Debra was saying. The focus is very much on healing, healing, healing, illness, illness, illness. And just from what was said also by Britta just now, the intention is going towards illness.

The focus is on illness. We're focusing our intention on illness. We're magnifying the illness. I know it from experience. I think we all know what fear is like. And so from it, just from realizing this, and just as has been said, understanding through intensive practice for per really decades, that, to come to understand, Oh, my focus, this, I want to mention something very important.

I think that makes the big difference. And it's, it's actually, to my understanding, a very large topic in Zhineng Qigong science. Which is to understand the reference framework, how the reference framework actually works, what it is made of, how to deal with it, and how to transform it. Of course, we do it through practice and everything that is included.

The reason why, in my understanding, why the focus is, in my understanding, for most of us, initially when we are, have some kind of diagnosis, the focus is on fear. And on solving the problem, there is a problem. Instead of focusing on basic aspects of Zhineng Qigong science, like the openness, that you are the spirit already, you just forgot it.

And so here are all these methods. And, mantras and techniques, like this mantra here, tóng. Instead of focusing on them, we focus, no, I need to, I need to get rid of this. I need to go to the doctor and not have the disease. So for that, I think we just need to be, it's just a matter of, it takes time, like Debra said.

Initially, we have to be transitioning from intense fear. And anxiety and worry and everything to come into peace. I am alive right now. Nothing is wrong. I can practice for another hour or another two hours, whatever. And just to be focused, narrowing our attention to just what we want. I want to be joyful and peaceful and happy and feel better.

And that's the focus. moment by moment. Now, if I, if I'm trying to summarize a little bit on what we've said so far, I think we all agree that the, that the body has a natural, ability to heal. And what we do with qi neng qi gong is basically to activate and support the body in its healing process.

However, whenever, you know, disturbances come in, like stress, fear, worries, distractions, that is the moment where we make it harder for our body to do the actual healing process. Is that, is that, fair to say, is that why it's so much in the way? You're nodding there, Debra. Maybe you want to take over and, and add to that.

Well, I think everyone has brought up very, very important. Aspects of healing. And, I, I would like to piggyback on what, Ronit said, because, I think it is understanding ourself, our own true potential, who we really are. And that happens by working inwardly. And, I believe that it's helpful for everyone to, To, this good foundation includes movement, of course, because we are so attached to our physical body form, ego logic, kind of all outside of us, but our methods are a bridge to help us go inward.

And when we can create that good foundation and have an inner connection, then we begin to open up inwardly to, different levels, different dimensions of who we are. And it naturally begins to change our frame of reference. And when our frame of reference is changing, our logic and ego gets very confused.

So it steps aside so that we can cultivate this inner space. Which is our growing space, our nutrition. And when we finally have that deeper understanding, then Shen, Qi, and being merge together. And they are not separate. And as we explore that root, It's a natural ability to heal because there's no separation.

We're not working on just the physical body. We're not working just on being quiet and meditating. We are also working on opening our our Shen heart. And merging all of that together pulls everything into oneness and it becomes easier to heal. I don't think it's all that hard. What creates the challenge is, as Federico pointed out, our perspective, our frame of reference, our logic, our ego.

Thank you. Thank you, Debra. Ronit, Britta mentioned intention. And I remember that when we had our very first podcast, I will never forget how you said, because you had, you were dealing with your very own healing story and your intention was so strong that at one point, and I hope I quote you correctly.

Yeah. You said, I'm going to China now and I will not return before I haven't healed. Now for me, I can already feel my goosebumps. I, this is intention. Right. Do you want to, do you want to add to that maybe? Yeah, I think, I think it's, it's an intention. It's a very clear, I think the perfect, the most important thing is to be like Britta said, one hearted.

Like really, really honest and discovering the places where you're not honest. Usually people are not, not honest because they, they're lying because they're not aware of how the, the ego and the reference framework is working on us. So actually all this my words process that Debra was depicting can happen when your mind is really quiet and you really dive into the field and you can really merge with a Qi field and then things happen to you.

But after the practice. You know, it's not just during the practice hour. Healing is about transforming the information and holding your strong intention 24 hours a day. And the amount of thoughts we have every day and the, and the amount of habits and convictions and you know, beliefs we have is so strong that we don't understand it's part of the illness.

We, we, we attach too much to the science, to the body, to the symptoms. And we think healing is solving the symptoms. And we don't realize that our whole being that suffered from our reference framework, from our traumas, from everything has been built in a way that we're not understanding where to look.

So when we talk about intention, the word trust come to me. I think we're healing the trust, the trust in life, the trust in ourselves, the trust that life is really what it is. And it's not that frightening and scary as we were, as we see in the newspapers everywhere. So it's really, like a revolution or something really radical.

And this trust, I know I myself been struggling with it for years. To make it more and more and more, because teacheriansheia says the water doesn't boil at 99%, you have to go all the way, and some people who have a very, very strong intention, and they're really, it comes from the heart, even not from the mind, from the heart.

then it will happen. Now there is a distinction, Ronit, between having a very strong intention and trying very hard to get healthy, right? Yes. So maybe Britta, is that something you would like to explore upon a little bit? Yes, with pleasure. And I actually also would like to come back, if possible, to the question you had earlier about the impact of emotions, you know, when you feel worry and fear, but we can we can see if there's space for that.

So, yes. So actually, when we think about it, that And I think when it gave a great example, as well as Debra, you know, having this strong intention for their own psyche and for the request, but, you know, for their own self healing and their heads and really, doing or being whatever is possible to make it happen.

Whatever it takes also. You know, not, let's say, playing around, but really from inside, choosing a state of whatever it takes, if I need to change my way of being, if I need to transform limiting beliefs or frames which are in my way, I go all the way. And then, obviously, there are others. status where, you know, people maybe hope for health.

Hope is actually the lowest, level of, we cannot even call it intention. It's really like, yeah, I hope one day I will be better, but hope doesn't, there's no, willingness to take action. It's maybe the hope is still outside, you know, something happens to me and then hopefully, you know, I get better.

Or you wish, you know, for, for good health. Wishing is already a little bit. Higher than hope, but still it's not on the level off. I changed. I transform. I evolved. I grow to whatever it takes. I make it happen. And then obviously we also have the distinction of gold. You know, I yes, I know. I want to be healthy and I set the goal by Christmas.

I'm gonna be happy. So it's a strong objective and you probably then also take some actions, that you maybe change your nutrition. You now practice instead of one hour, two to three hours, because that's also something that genetical masters have been sharing with us around the world, including Dr.

Pang Ming. If you really would like to create vibrant health and you have a chronic disease, then it's better to practice two to three hours a day and not just one. So when you have this goal of being You might choose them to practice, but, you still are not on the level of intention where really whatever it takes and you're willing.

We spoke about ego of frames. You're really willing to look deep into it. Into yourself and transforming what needs to be transformed and, choosing a new lifestyle. Maybe I can bring in one story of one of our Huyuan Qi therapists who rehealed himself from skin cancer. And it was, u quite a life challenging situation and all his family members were very worried.

And he chose to be happy. He knew that the state of joy and happiness would heal him because the state of joy would nourish the heart, energy, then it has an impact on all our inner organs, the body relaxes, and his whole Qigong practice would then help him to recover. So he kept being joyful. Even if the family members were sad or desperate or so, he had, first of all, a very high intention, but second, then also was willing to change his own, in a state, overcoming his own fear and then eventually healed.

Thank you, Britta. And Federico, I'd like to come back to this whole idea of frame of references, if that's possible, because we kind of agreed that this is in the way to our healing. And how, how does one actually become aware of what my frame of reference is because without that awareness, there's not much I can change.

This is also the reason why I might be running around thinking my intention is to heal because I haven't really understood myself very well. I haven't really uncovered what else is going on for me and what my frame of reference is. So how does one uncover one's frame of reference, Federico? Yes, I, I want very much to address your question.

I also want to express that in listening to each One of you. I'm, I can't remember who said what, but I'm really trying to put it all together, because I think it's very valuable. And so before I answer your question, I think it might be connected when I heard Ronit, she was talking about trust, or I would even go as far as faith.

People don't talk about faith in Qigong, but in fact, I believe that's in my experience, that actually is what is required. Faith means that, well, it's not to have some kind of belief or it will work. You know, I think that's good. It's, it's better than nothing. Like Britta was addressing, that there's different levels of wishing and desiring.

But to have faith means that you are surrendered. You are surrendered to what your life has given you and that you now have this path. This is my experience. When I was very, really at the end, I didn't know what else to do, then life just showed up and very soon I was in China. And then it's, it's almost, it's, it's not like, Oh, I need, I will do it.

I need to do this and do that. No, it's just, okay, I give up. I will follow now. So that was a big lesson for me. And, in my, you could say my Zhineng Qigong. Path is from the, from the very beginning, surrender, let go, and let this wave carry you. So, trusting in life. Is part of life. So trusting Zhineng Qigong is a way, is a, is a way of trusting in life.

You see, oh, there's this, a very great intelligence behind it, and I will surrender to it and follow it to the, to the end, you know, whatever it takes then and addressing the, the, the notion of the reference framework. I work with people very differently. I don't use a Qigong terms because in the West it is very complicated in my experience.

However, my experience is that people say, yes, I really need to heal from this, that, you know, there's, you know, thousands of things, but because of the established reference framework, which we could understand as who we think we are at some superficial level, it's actually very superficial. It's not deep at all, but it's very strong.

So these individuals come and wish to be healed. They certainly need it and want it, but as soon as they begin to heal, which means to The heart opens, I'm beginning to be touched by life, well, maybe I can trust, maybe I can follow. Then immediately, there's a closing. Ah, no, this is wrong, I need to do some other thing, this is not what I, you know, there's So it's, you know, the foundation of Zhineng Qigong is focusing on opening.

in closing, right? So it's, we have to be observant of the opening and the closing. So to simplify, to be attached to the reference framework means to be attached to the closing or to the opening only. Oh no, I'm opening great. Oh no, I'm opening too much. Oh, oh no, I'm closing. Oh no. So that's the, the, the foundation of the reference framework.

So to dissolve it, I need to see that there's opening and there's closing and that's life. And so I'm distanced from this and from that. And I, who is aware of the closing and the opening, I am not that. And so that begins to demolish the foundation of the Reference Framework. It's all, it's really a pattern of openings and closings.

You could say at a really, really big scale. So the, you could say the false sense of self, in Chinese, the shinbin, the shadow self, is made up of the Reference Framework.

And it's completely superficial. There's no heart in it. There's no trust. There's no warmth. It's very cold, actually. And, you know, from the experience of, of course, being like, like everybody else, that's just, it's inevitable. That's how everybody has a reference framework. But Zhineng Qigong offers a new reference framework, which is, it's very obvious from the very beginning.

No, you are not this thing. You are, as Dr. Pang says, the indomitable spirit. That's who you are. So that's a different reference framework. So it's, it's kind of going in from one to the other over many, many. experiences of being totally closed, being totally open, and then finding the balance to where you are, where you want to be.

Ronald, how did you go about, you know, understanding and really getting who you are, knowing who you are, becoming who you are? What was your path there? First of all, I'm still in the process. It's never, it's a never ending story. I had two big steps towards that. One was dealing, one is when, you mentioned when I was really ill and I decided I'm gonna heal no matter what.

And this included just not letting the fear and the despair and All the, you know, the negative and the following the physical, symptoms and everything. I just stopped following it. And I just, I was aware every moment in the day when these dots came or these incidents came and I just didn't let my mind go there.

And then there was another wave, which I really understood I have to take care. Of every thought in the day that is going out of my mind. And it was not considering symptoms of illness. It was considering every, you know, the everyday life situation. Relationships, family members, work. And to understand the power.

Every thought that comes out of me is creating a reality. The reality is, I, this was the time where I understood if you want to heal, you have to forget about the illness, about the symptoms. The illness is only a wake up call to understand that we are alive and that illness is when we stop trusting life and we, we, we want to rule it or to control it, or to criticize it or to try and do things with it.

We get in the way. And for me, that stage was working with the information, transforming every in, like, really 24 hours a day, because I understood even things that seem not connected are connected. in my life. And then I could realize all the things that everyone here is talking about, about the reference framework and about the emotions and everything.

Now I know from many conversations with people that they find this extremely hard. So I know you, Ronit, you had, you had terrible symptoms basically. So there was pain involved in all of these things. And yet, Debra, you said, you know, focus on, focus on the health. And people say, well, how can I focus on the health if I have all these symptoms?

I mean, like it's, I'm constantly reminded of my illness, of my disease. It's, it sounds so, so simple on, on one level to say, well, focus on the health, but I think this is what needs to be done, right? Because, you know, Ronit, you did it. When I listened to how you, how you explained that just, it's exactly what you did.

You said, I'm making a conscious decision here. These thoughts, these sensations, I will not give any intent, any attention. And and so that takes me back to you, Debra, because that's my point. That's basically how you opened our conversation by, by speaking about this focus on the, on the health, on the joy.

You, you even said, you know, don't be so serious about it. Can you explore, can you take the, our conversation maybe in that direction a little bit more? Yes, there are a couple of things that I think are really important. One, trust was mentioned. And I think that is an essential factor in what we do.

So, how do we build trust? How do we make that happen? We, do exactly as Do I pronounce your name correctly, Ronit? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. Exactly the way she described it, which is not easy. It's very challenging and I think we should, diminish the word try to make anything happen. Because as Federico said, when he just quit, surrendered.

That's when the change and the transformation began to happen. And I think in for Ronit, it was the same thing. Because you were working from the inside out. You were opening up. And your frame of reference was changing. And, it was a similar experience for myself. I quit, so to speak.

Doing everything I was told to do, and I made up my own way of doing it, and I completely healed. You know, so, I think when we quit trying, and we just be, that's a huge step. Because that takes us inside. And then we begin to, Have this sort of inner nudge and think, maybe, perhaps this is the beginning of trust and then that begins to build confidence.

And we can open up inwardly, and then everything begins to change, including our frame of reference. We don't have to try so hard to change anything, and gradually pain diminishes, everything begins to diminish. And our first instinct, if we are in pain, Is to obviously our body saying you need help right now if we can take that challenge as trouble being our friend and we go inside we can diminish the pain very quickly and then that gives us the opportunity to transform and make change.

It doesn't mean it's easy. You might have to try it a dozen times before it finally clicks in. But the idea is there. It's not so much trying, it's just moving into a different space. May I just add on on what wounded and Debra has been sharing because, I got the insight to build on it and say that the moment before the transformation starts, there is also a deep level of choice.

So you, you, you come to the conclusion that whatever you do is harmful to your body, your body gives you the symptoms. And then from deep inside of you, you choose a different, let's say, way of being or a different, lifestyle or a different perspective. And I would just like to bring. I have not had these illnesses so sincerely like you guys, but I remember very clearly that when we had a drought in Cape Town, where we used to live, that was quite fearful.

And I was at one moment developing stomach ache because I was very much worried about the city running out of water and how that would be quite life threatening actually to all of us living there. And I noticed now my mindset, the worry. impacting my stomach, stomach reacting with pain. And I was in pain maybe two to three days.

And then, then I also realized a conscious choice that if I would continue like that, I would maybe attract a very sincere illness. Also, I would not really have the situation. So I made a conscious choice to stop worrying. Although the situation outside didn't change, but I changed and chose a healthy mindset in order to protect myself.

And, then I also started a new initiative, which, and I think that is maybe also related that out of this choice also. becomes maybe a new perspective or a new idea, how you can be part of the solution and not part of the problem. And I decided then to be part of the solution. That's a bit too complex to explain here.

But, that was a very interesting revolution or no revelation. When you realize you have an insight, yeah, big insight, choice. Everybody has a choice. We just need to be aware of making right choices. And then I would like to add practice because that is something you can then support your new, new, new choices to Dr.

Pang has shared with us. And the Zhineng Qigong masters have shared with us so many practices. So we then can choose the right practice for the right situation at that moment and fill ourselves again with Qi. Because sometimes also people might have not enough Qi, let's say in their, in their upper dantian, which, which supports mental clarity, stability, nourishment, so that they make the right choices.

And obviously if you have, if you're suffering of certain symptoms, you also don't have enough chi in your lower dantian, which is the energy center for physical strength and well being. But we have a lot of practices. So then we can choose certain practices to help recover also fast, but choices first. I think if we, if we just practice without a clear understanding of we have a choice, then the practice also becomes hard.

I think one of the earlier statements, Torsten, you made, why do some people practice so hard and they don't heal? Maybe because they have not reflected deep enough on certain life choices. They need to first, Let's say heal and then make their practice joyful. You should be very happy. We have these amazing practices.

Dr. Pang gave us so many gifts and we just, we are just here to, you know, embrace them and, and enjoy them. If you, if you are as a listener, you know, are somebody who practiced very hard for many years and you don't recover, then I think that's the invitation. Reflect on the choices you make in your life and whether you're really opened your heart and changed your emotion and emotions into trust and confidence, what you are already mentioned, but also joy, you know, and I think joy is also a state we can choose no matter how desperate our situation is.

Thank you. I'm sure Federico, many things have been going through your mind while you were listening to these beautiful ladies. Maybe you have, there's something you would like to add, or maybe that's something you would like to explore or take, you know, take on as a thought.

Well, I would say that, In general,

everything has to be about what's happening right now. Speaking about healing, am I whole right now? Right now, is there wholeness in my experience? What is that like? Do I need to be practicing some method to be whole? Then, of course, that is natural. That means that the healing process is still ongoing. It will always be ongoing, but What I mean is,

if I am separate from the situation that is happening right now, then I'm not whole. There's a fragment. There's a separation. So there's a resistance, or a fighting, or a Something is not well. There is no wholeness. There is no wellness. And in my experience, that's always, it is a matter of the heart. Can I be open to whatever is happening right now without resistance?

Loving it. But it's not an idea. When there is love in our experience, everything is very light and smooth and even. We all know these terms. Smooth, openness, lightness. There's no concern. Everything's fine. Just exactly as it is. It is totally okay. I just want to refer to this mantra here again. Not everybody is open to it.

Not everybody is aware of it or teaches it, but fundamentally it means when the spirit moves through our heart and our mind, we are one with whatever is happening. And then the power of intention and the will and everything, it just happens for you. There's no, there's no separate. Federico willing his life or intending his life or whatever that is, that is absurd when healing means when there's no Federico anymore to control or to have an intent or I'm doing this and this and that and the other.

In my experience, that is still diseased. The reference framework is still very strong, very, very much active, and they will come up with new ways to challenge the sense of being whole again. So it's, I think it's really back to what has been said. Yeah. I recall Debra and Ronit and I think also Britta is, 

the Zhineng Qi Gong is not separate from life. It is a manifestation of life, a manifestation of consciousness. And of course, not everybody will be exposed to it, but whoever is fortunate enough, and that is number one, to be fortunate even to know about it, then to be fortunate to understand it, or to benefit from it, that's another experience.

Then you realize, actually, this is not about Dr. Pang, or Sun Yat sen, or China, or whatever, or a person, or, it's not about any of that. It's just about being one with life, to be open, to surrender to it, and to say yes to everything. Everything. Then there's no, there's no resistance. There's not going to be a corresponding contraction in opposition to whatever is happening.

Then we can speak about being joyful, you know, being very open. There's just yes, yes, and thank you.

I just want to give, offer one anecdote. I think it was 2006 when I, this, when I, when Sun Yat sen discovered me, I don't know how it was. Everything in the circumstances of my life was in opposition of going with this, learning this, being exposed to it. The day before I was going to go to China, I was in a car accident.

And I, they told me that you can't fly. Are you insane? You can't go. He said, no, I am going to go. And so it's, it is simply merging with. life. That to me, that's what Zhineng Qigong is, is about. It's, it's giving us some kind of, structure that we can consider through practices and methods and ideas and mantras.

It's a vast field. There's something for everyone. I will be attracted by some particular thing, but in my case, Oh, there's just, I need to, I need, I was like, I used to show you get into a wave and you just follow it all the way to the show. So I think it's to make it more, you know, simultaneously more simple.

It's really just a gift. Can I receive the gift, or am I going to be spending many years thinking about, Oh, maybe it's a good one. I don't know. You see, I'm not sure that there is choice involved in that. I wouldn't say, in fact, that there is choice. Either it happens for you, or it doesn't. And that's just how it is.

Period. So, I consider myself very fortunate that I was obedient to what was offered.

Ronit, from your own personal healing story, is there something you feel like you would like to add to this conversation?

I think there is There is a journey between a, the person who has symptoms and illness to the state, to the Qigong state. It looks like, and, and it looks like to, to, different things. Like you said, it's very, very, sometimes it's very, very difficult for people who are really aching and really stressing out to connect to the state, to the beautiful state Federico was talking about and Debra and Britta.

And it's just, if you put your heart into it, if you don't give up, not giving up, even though you fall many times, If you take the support, and if you learn, start Berlin, at the beginning it's a theory for people who start, yeah? And understanding just to look where you don't think you should look. And I totally agree with everything said here, that if you can have a joyful, peaceful, happy state, this will do a lot.

If you're on your way to saying, how can I, you know, how can it happen, then it's time to look in yourm, the information you're holding in your life, all the areas in your life, and see what is asking to be open. And this can be, you know, maybe a hint.

Okay, thank you Ronit. I've got a thought that I would like to bring into the discussion and, you know, I might be completely off here, but in, in my experience, in order to get to that state of lightness of, well, it's not so difficult. Healing is natural. It's, you know, it's just something that can happen.

There's a part of me that would say that fundamentally, I, I can't hang on to life, to life too much. I have to be fundamentally willing to let go. Because if I'm too attached to, Oh my God, I want to live. Then I'm all tense and there's no way I can relax. There's no way I can be joyful. So on the, in a way there is like, you know, And I think Federico, you sometimes say like, you know, no matter what is, it's all, everything is, everything is good.

Everything is fine. Right. So, you know, we all going to die one day. So, I kind of need to surrender to that idea. And say, no, I don't take it so damn serious. It's going to come anyway, one day. Right. So let me relax about the whole thing and let me be joyful and let me see what I can do to have many beautiful years ahead.

And, but fundamentally, I need to let go. Of this, this holding onto my petty little life, right? And then I, then I can make these choices and say, now having been totally peaceful with that idea that, you know, one day I'll be gone, now what are the steps that I can take? And that is where everything comes in.

That is now when intention kicks in. And then this is where I can check up on myself. Am I the person that says, well, I wish I could go to that retreat, but you know, I have to take care of my husband at home or my kids are still going to school. I can't leave them behind. Do I have all kinds of reasons why I'm not going there?

So it's actually two questions here, two, two aspects here. The one is this idea of being totally fine with if it's not working, it's not working, you know, what the heck, let me have fun anyway, right? And the other one is to test my commitment by checking up where do I set my priorities? And Debra said it's so beautiful when she said at one point she says, you know, I don't care what people say, I'll do it my way now.

And I remember you wrote it, and when you went to China, you said, I know I've got a child, but I don't suffer back home if I continue to suffer. I'm not serving anyone if I don't put, put myself and my health in first priority now. So, that was a lot from my, here, from my side, you know, given that I just wanted to raise the question, but I'd like love to hear, Debra, you know, what, how, how do you feel about what I just said?

Well, personally, I think your petty life is very worthwhile,

and I would like to also, I think, you know, I want to make sure that it's clear when I said, I just quit. And when Frederico says, I just surrendered. We never stopped. It was a continuation. It was just at a different space, a different level, a different awareness. But we never stopped. And, you know, we're not trying to make anything happen.

And I think acceptance of everything, just the way it is, is important. A huge part of creating trust and confidence and learning how empowered we are as beings and saying yes to everything. I think it's true. Everything except everything. And that includes. Your illness, your disharmony, your fears, your emotions, everything.

And when you include all of that, to me, it is that unsticking. You're not attached anymore to anything outside of you that isn't going to help you. You are relying more and more with your inner awareness, your inner light, your inner lighthouse, Essence, whatever you want to call it. None of those words are quite right.

And then we are empowered in a way that makes it so much more effective to live. In our life comfortably, because again, there's no separation. Absolutely none. And well, I'm going off on a tangent. I'll just stop there, and continue. , we could talk for hours, . Yes, I know, I know. Thank you Debra. Brita, do you want to add something here?

Yes. I mean, it's a very powerful conversation. I really feel very inspired. So thank you so much for the great flow so far. The, the conversation where we are right now, brought me to, one experience I'd like to share, which might be helpful. I have a client in Germany who's a She went to go practitioner, but he's also a trainer and coach and resilience.

And he has, you know, he's teaching actually other people to accept and be in the moment. And then a few months ago, he was in a car crash. And in that moment, he completely crashed his car. Somebody else drove, into his car. He was not, it was not his fault, but the, how do you say that? The airbag. So he was from one moment, he didn't foresee it.

So for one moment to another, he was in a dust dark and the car crashed, it was actually, the car was, how do you say that? Useless afterwards. So it was completely broken. Yeah. Total crash. In that moment, he choose. to apply what he was teaching and sharing, full surrendering, accepting the moment, accepting this car crash.

He was, it was not his fault. He, but he really realized, and I found this so powerful that it was this one moment where he then really realized he's in deep trouble and he was checking himself, but then he went, he was not injured. He was very clear in his mind. He was not fearful because he was accepting.

I mean, who could I don't know if I would be in that state, honestly, although I am decades of genetic practitioner. He went out, he was actually helping that woman who caused the car crash. She was very upset and he was, she was emotionally taken. He looked aside and already a truck came to take his car.

Everything was very smooth and easy, just because he was in that moment of surrendering and applying what he was, teaching and sharing and practicing himself for many, many years. So that's one aspect that I agree with everybody, everyone was sharing so far. Maybe a new dimension I'd like to bring in is that Dr.

Pang is talking about what is true health and offering three pillars of true health. One, we talked, already healthy thoughts, you know, the right mindset, the right choices, transforming, limiting beliefs or patterns and really come to who we are and then live it. And also Ronit earlier, you know, shared how she was, you know, shifting and changing in her healing journey.

So healthy thoughts is one pillar. Second pillar is related to a healthy brain and nervous systems. So here comes our practice, the challengical methods we can practice to help our body on a physical level to recover. And the third pillar is healthy relationships. And this obviously is the relationship inside of us, you know, with our true self.

That's one dimension. But the other dimension is our relationship with nature, with the universe, our relationship with other living beings. and our relationship between our body, let's say mind and emotions and, and our spirit. So this, I think is a big topic as well. And I'd like to invite listeners to also reflect when they are on their journey to health and holistic healing, to take this into consideration, really be honest about, every relationship in your life is healthy and well, yes, harmonious, balanced, really.

Question mark and then go relationship by relationship by relationship and heal it in including the relationship to yourself But if there's a family member, you don't have a healthy relationship then for your own health and well being Allow this to heal and even if you feel like the other person's actually so called wrong, make it your own, adventure to heal it anyhow.

And, you know, look inside of you what you can do to heal it. And I actually take this. I started to take this pillar of to have quite seriously and started to hear relationships with my family. So colleagues or neighbors or friends and try to really keep them then have the also, you know, a moment, somebody pushes my red buttons that I really, I'm then invited to reflect on keep this relationship healthy and harmonious because it's has a strong impact on my own health and well being.

So for my own sake, so, so to speak. Thank you. I think, I think you brought up, you know, an important point that we actually haven't covered yet. It is true that the relationships, if my relationships are not working or if they're unhealthy, there's no way, you know, my emotional state can be healthy and there's no way my, my thinking process can be healthy and then there is no way that my body can be healthy.

So it will show up eventually. So, thank you very much for bringing that up, Britta. I think, yeah, we, I would love to go one final round and see whether there's anything else that you guys think, you know, you would like to add to this conversation, anything we've missed or anything that you'd like to focus in on.

So, let me start with Federico here. Is there anything that you feel, you know, you would like to express while we're all together here? This may, what I'm saying now may sound a little bit shocking. At the level of consciousness, if I'm not healing, it means that I do not wish to heal. I do not wish to heal.

So I, I still want to enjoy, like, all of the many things that Rita was referring to, and relationships, and my mind, and this and that. There's a certain enjoyment, there's a certain, Happiness that takes place in, in the melodrama of this and that and suffering and contractions and difficulties and challenges.

So at the level of consciousness, I'm still primarily interested in that. Maybe, maybe my, my wholeness will be found in these things. I'm still going outward to those things. Maybe I will, as consciousness, I will be found there. My peace, my settling, my wholeness. So I would suggest that if, as conscious as I realize, this is not what I wish, then it's a natural process, as nobody's doing it, it simply happens.

Then, oh I, hmm, maybe this is not what I want. And then I will be having the real motivation to trust in life, to follow the indications, because there are many that are being given. Like one of them, the most beautiful one in my life has been Sunang Chikong. Oh, just follow, obey. It's a matter of obedience, you see, but you're not obedient to somebody else.

You're obedient to yourself, to your own heart. Oh no, what I really want is to be at peace, to be whole, to, to, to all the understandings of the world. They make no difference if my heart is not open. They're just, they're useless. So I think this is very important. It may sound, no, that's insane. What does that mean?

But in my experience, that is how it is. At the level of consciousness, if I make the choice, if it has been made for me already, it has been made. Oh, I will be healed. I will be happy. I will be at peace. Then I will do whatever it takes. It doesn't matter. Anything. You will do anything. Anything. You will do that.

But if, if you're still, I think this, maybe I'll try, there's so many things, thousands of things. I can try this and that modality and 300 this and that, and all this and this. I've done it myself, then. I'm not really ready for healing yet. I haven't really, you know, been worn down enough and, and reached the end of the road.

You see, I think Seneng Jigong, like some other disciplines, is really intended for those of us who have reached the end of the road. Just as a little anecdote, I think Debra or some, one of you was saying this, and that anecdote came to me. And when Hua Xia was still open, the practice center in China, there are many sick people, like quadriplegics, people with cancer, you know, end stage of life, whatever.

And there's a description, you know, yes, many people came at the practice field and they died in the practice field. They died there. Standing up, they collapsed and died. But while they were practicing, they were happy. They were whole. You see? So, healing has many different dimensions. It doesn't just mean, oh yes, I have now, I have a happy life and everything is good, you know.

Maybe, I'm totally sick and, and, and suffering until the very last second, and I'm there practicing. Like, I considered it, because I used to practice for two or three hours at a time. And then, oh, maybe I will collapse. I don't know. Who cares? I'm very good right now. You see? And then It doesn't matter. So healing has, can have many different dimensions.

Thank you very much for adding that, Federico. And I'd like to come back to what you said, you know, right in the beginning, because I think this is a very important point. It really has to be with being brutally honest to oneself. And I know that I learned. I learned that in my coaching and training education and I was told that if you want to know what your intentions are in life, look at your results because the results It will always tell you 100 percent what your intentions are.

So what if I am not healing then the truth is my intention is I don't want to heal. Now this sounds cruel to people because they mix up their conscious intention because they say are you crazy of course I want to heal with everything else that's going on in the unconscious mind. Which is in their way of healing.

And that brings us back to what your Ronit said. and Debra said it is about. Learning about yourself, learning, uncovering these things about yourself, find out how comes I don't want to heal, but don't deny it. There is something within you that obviously it doesn't want to heal because otherwise you would be going through the healing process.

So I think you said something extremely important. It's, it might be shocking or painful for people initially, but it is about the truth. It is about facing the truth and about what your intention really is in life. And then you might find out the most amazing thing. things about yourself and say, wow, I didn't even notice, I didn't even realize I'm doing that or I'm thinking that way, which is the frame of reference, you know, that we touched on earlier.

And this is creating all these emotions maybe in me or all these issues within me. And this is why I have, I have this dis ease. which is causing me so much harm. But, so I think it's, I'm very grateful you bring up this point because it takes some courage to say these things. It's not usually, it's not always very popular if one says that, but I think it is important.

Okay. You are with me, Federico. All right. So I just wanted to Just to add a little bit to what you were saying, I'm so happy, Torsten, that you mentioned this, because it's really about sincerity. Superficially, anybody can say anything, I know, because I have said past things, I know. Deeply in our hearts, to really know what I wish, what I truly want, means that I know that I am divided, I am not whole.

That's what, that's what the other, the other definition of health means, to be unified, integrated. There is no fragment. But if I speak with one half of my mouth and the other says the opposite, it means that I'm divided. I am not whole. So most of us do not wish to face this. I know it's very hard, but it is fundamentally important for healing.

That's where, that's healing really begins then.

Thank you, Federico. And I'd like to give the floor to Britta now. Your, your final thoughts on, you know, have we missed anything? Are there any points that you would like to add or anything that you would just like to stress or focus on? Yeah, so many meaningful and valuable insights, information, experiences have been shared.

Just maybe some final invitation to the listeners, is about, the understanding that your health, your life is really controlled by yourself so that you come to the conclusion that you are in charge and you are also responsible. And I love the English word for responsibility because it entails the ability to respond.

So you inside of you will find, you know, answers, insights, inspiration, and also maybe the willingness to, spend resources. to it, meaning, you know, studying Zhineng Qigong, learning the theories, practicing, learning about nutrition, then applying nutrition. What does happy thoughts mean to you and how can you then Come to change your thoughts so that they are healthy and then, how do you say it?

Supporting your health. What do, what does happy relationships mean to you and how can you make your relationships healthy and harmonious? So really inviting you to, to be, to embark on a journey of self discovery. Yeah. And then what has been said, not give up, you know, because maybe the moment you have the breakthrough, you, you are about to make a breakthrough, you're having this breakthrough.

So. Yeah, continue to and be supported and find a community. Sometimes people can feel very lonely and although there are people out there willing to support and willing to be part of your healing journey. Yeah, so that's also, I think now healing takes place also on a community level, on a more togetherness level.

Yeah. You're not alone. You're not. You're not alone. I think this is also a very important message. And, in particular within the Zhineng QIGONG community, there's so much support, so much love, so much openness, that it is, truly, you know, truly, truly, truly, possibility to get all the support that you need.

Plus all the fantastic teachers that we have and all the fantastic masters. So we should definitely take advantage of that. Now Debra, the floor is yours. Is there anything from your perspective that you would like to add or stress again? Well, I just hope that many things that have been spoken of here helps.

Someone in some way, because, as you can see, there are no easy paths to get to complete healing. Everyone, it will be different for everyone. And I think it's really important to understand that our Zhineng Qigong practice, Dr. Pong designed this for us. It's not a competition with someone else. How, you know, your neighbor practices three hours a day, you practice 20 minutes a day.

I mean, it's not a competition. We do the best we can do with our practice to help us unfold all of these aspects of ourselves so that we can realize and understand. That we are being empowered through our practice, these transformations are they are really occurring. And I would encourage everyone to, as Britta said, find someone begin to work with someone, you know, I would suggest the student hub is a good place to start.

But there are many, many people all over the world practicing. And once you become a part of the community, whether you come and go, step in, step out, you are always in that Qi field. And it's just fine tuning our awareness to stay connected within that field and understanding who we really are. And that's how we create confidence and trust.

Using that. through our practice to continue to build. So, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much, Debra. I think these are the perfect closing words. You started, with your, with the opening words and you also gave us this beautiful closing words. So, I have to thank you for that. And everything in between, you know, from Ronit, from Britta, from Federico, and from yourself has just been amazing information.

I'll thank you from the bottom of my heart that you give us your time, your wisdom and your heart. So that hopefully, you know, some listeners out there might get, you know, the one thought that will make a difference in his or her healing process and his or her health. situation. And with that spirit, you know, I'll end today's conversation.

Thank you very much, everyone, again, and wishing you all the best and I hope to see you guys soon. We trust you enjoyed this conversation and we invite you to subscribe to our podcast so we can stay in touch and notify you We will end today's episode with the eight verses meditation performed by Zhineng Qigong teacher Katrien Hendrickx, enjoy.



To get your free e book on the Eight Verses Meditation, please check the show notes below.