The 8 Verses of Zhineng Qigong Explained - Federico Garcia-Anguiano

The 8 verses meditation, also known as The Ding Tian Li Di song forms the foundation of the Zhineng Qigong practice. The Huaxia Centre teachers emphasise this as the most important aspect to learn. Federico Garcia-Anguiano explains that the eight verses - serves as preparation, not only for any method of practice but also, as Grandmaster Dr. Pang teaches, for life itself.

Federico explains that building a Qi field is a key concept within this practice, as its consciousness that plays a central role in understanding and applying the 8 verses. An old reference framework can lead to energy imbalances and disease when rigidly maintained. You distort reality through this limited perspective. The eight verses of Zhineng Qigong aim to free you from these constraints, serving as a reminder of your true self.

Buddhism, Daoism and Confucianism are all cultural influences for the 8 verses meditation. It even has reference to a musical scale as well. The eight verses meditation is structured in a way that mirrors this law, with intervals between verses representing the progression through the octave.

Each verse in the 8 verses serves as a preparation for the next, with the preceding verses laying the groundwork for the insights and experiences of the following ones. In Zhineng Qigong, the theory and practice are inseparable, with consciousness permeating every aspect of the practice.

Join Federico as he uncovers the eight phrases of life meditation.

Mindful Moments:

• 8 Verses meditation as the foundation of the Zhineng Qigong practice: Ding Tian Li Di, is emphasized as the most crucial aspect of Zhineng Qigong practice
• Eight phrases of life meditation or the Ding Tian Li Di song, is  preparation for any method of practice and for life itself
• Building a Qi Field: A key concept in Zhineng Qigong is the importance of building a Qi field, where consciousness plays a vital role in understanding and applying the 8 verses
• Dr. Pang addresses the eight verses to the "indomitable spirit", directly reminding Qigong practitioners and students of their true self
• The Eight Verses of Zhineng Qigong are influenced by Buddhism, Daoism, and Confucianism, and are structured similarly to a musical scale, reflecting the law of octaves
• An old reference framework can lead to energy imbalances and disease, emphasizing the need to free oneself from these constraints through the 8 verses

Links & Resources:
Watch Federico’s other episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfeooolIzxM 

Link to Federico’s notes of the 8 verses meditation: https://www.somaticscience.org/wisdomability

The 8 verses meditation: https://youtu.be/7uJTeBtxUiY 

🎙️🌟Explore more podcasts, events, and resources visit:
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📘📚 Get your FREE E-book on the "Eight verses meditation" by Dr Pang:
https://www.zhineng-qigong-students-hub.com/exploration-of-the-eight-verses-of-zhineng-qigong-meditation-e-book

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Transcript

The 8 Verses Meditation by Dr. Pang takes central stage in our Qigong practice. Its profound wisdom is truly mind blowing and a reminder of who we really are. Federico García has studied the 8 Verses in depth. Thank you, Federico, for sharing your insights with us. My name is Torsten Lueddecke and this is the Wisdom Qigong Podcast.

I started to study the eight verses as the first thing that was taught to me when I went to study Zhineng Qigong in China in 2006, I believe, or yeah, something like that. And that was day one of the trip. Everything was overwhelming. No, it doesn't matter. Pay attention. This is very important. The eight verses.

So in my experience, if the teachers who have been trained at the center in Huaxia, emphasize this, is because they were taught, they were taught, this is the most important thing to teach. 

Right. 

So that tells us that the foundation for any experience in Zhineng Qigong is, one, we must understand the eight verses.

It's, it's a preparation for, number one, for any method or practice. Number two, the way that Dr. Pang teaches it is, it is a preparation for my life. Because life is like a series of, like, events. The eight verses is a manifestation of a form of law that is called the law of eight, which is the law of the octave.

They use it in music. You strike the first note and then you end with the same note in a higher pitch. And then you move on to the next octave. So this is the musical scale. There are many very complex things that, of course, it doesn't make any sense here. But, the eight verses is one manifestation of what is called the law of seven.

It's also the law of eight, the law of seven. It's just seven notes, and then you go on to the next note, that is the last note, number eight. Which is the beginning of a new octave. So the eight verses is structured in exactly the same way. It's got two intervals, you know? And then the next do, that the, the, the MI is after the second verse,

And then before that, after that comes ing, and then there's the, the next interval is between SI and do, which is, received from the vastness. That is the preparation for the next ve, which is. The body is harmonized with the Qi information. Everything is fine. All is well. So, of course, I know that I have an obsessive personality to study anything.

And, of course, that is exactly what I did with the eight verses. Ha ha ha. 

It's actually the first time I hear someone talk about this and that aspect of the eight verses because normally the first thing I hear it is about, you know, getting yourself into the right mindset, the right state, state, connecting with the Qi field, building up the Qi field and all of these things.

Now, it's the first time I learned that there is actually a methodology music wise. Behind that. So that is very interesting. And I don't think, you know, many people are aware of that. 

Yes, probably not. This is, you know, there are so many things that might be, so many things that have to happen for somebody to be interested in it.

I understand that. But what you're saying is incredibly important. In general, before any practice, I need to be ready. Like, and this is immediately brings to my attention the notion of the reference framework. And this is also a very important aspect to understand. I mean, it is, it maybe it sounds theoretical, but actually, everything that we speak about is incredibly practical.

The reference framework, basically, for those of us who may never heard of it, is just. The way that we, in our quote unquote, we call our mind, or our personality, or our way of seeing the world, that is the reference framework. It is basically, oh yeah, that is, this, or like, that is green, that is a torsion, that is a wall, that is a this, that is a that.

Sure, it's fine, but then, usually for us humans, there is a, There's a projection that goes on top of that. Oh, there is a Torsten and he's like this. Why is he like that? Why is he not like the other way? Look at that plant. Why is it not the color that I like? Oh, it's too hot. You know, whatever. So you see things, you know, more or less as they are, but also not as they really are.

Not. And in fact, theoretically, and also experientially from what I understand, in my experience, The attachment to this reference framework being things like this, that is like that. Yes, no, you're wrong, I'm right. That is the source of the dysregulation that results in the endogenic imbalances in our body that cause disease.

That is it, right there. Oh, it's really, we can say it very ordinarily, it's my worldview. My worldview is what causes the disease. It is very peculiar, isn't it? So what 

you are saying is because of our reference framework, we distort the reality. And that also leads to a distortion and an imbalance somewhere, which is the cause of the disease.

Is that, is that what you're saying? Okay. Yes. And that, you know, if I bring it back to the eight verses is what the eight verses is basically trying to, free us from the take this away from us by getting into that state. And by following these. instructions or by following these, while, while we were preparing, I thought, well, you know, in a way it is an instruction, but you could also call it a reminder, a reminder of who we really are.

So, and I feel this is far more gentle than somebody telling me be this, be that. Now, if I see it as a reminder of who I really am, then I, you know, it's far more, you know, easier for me to get into that state and to accept it, and there's no resistance towards anything. 

Yes, I really enjoy what you're saying.

It's, it is a reminder of who I really am. With this, I would like to, I don't know, for those of us who have heard this or experienced it, the, one of the versions of the eight verses that is spoken by Dr. Pang in a different, you know, like, let's say, like, Like I say, like a longer practice, if we're going to practice, lift you up, put you down or three centers and merge for, let's say two hours or three hours.

Most people of course will not do this, but it is, it was very ordinary. In that preparation, then Dr. Pang uses a very interesting phrase right before any of the verses after, you know, relax this and that, the whole body, he addresses the eight verses to a particular one that is the one that you mentioned.

And he says it literally like this. Oh indomitable spirit. Then the eight verse follow. So he is very deliberately and clearly, literally reminding us now who you are is the indomitable spirit.

This may sound very esoteric, but is a very direct method, a very direct science. It is, not really messing around. It is the, in the, in the Chinese, translations that I have made. It is all very straightforward. There's no fancy, words. No, you are the indomitable spirit. This is for you. Right. 

Right.

My name is Leilah Cupido, and I'm the project manager of the Students Hub. Our team is constantly adding events, teachers, videos, and other resources to take your practice to the next level, improving the quality of your life and the life of the people around you. We do this work for you, so please use it Hunyuan Lingtong.

I didn't know, again, I didn't know he said that. So it's very interesting for the community to, to hear that, because it sums it up right. And, and, then it opens us to what is coming next, which is the eight verses. So maybe we should, because we haven't really spoken about what it is and a lot of people in the audience might not even know what it is.

So maybe you can explore a little bit what the eight verses are about and, what the essence is content wise as well. 

Yes. So after the first annunciation for you, the indomitable spirit, then the verses changed after 2014. Before 2014 it was Ding Tian Li Di after 2014 is,

so Ding Tian Li Di means head reaching to the sky and feet to the earth, and you are in the middle in between. The new version is. Grow your feet all the way to the other side of the earth and then push your head through the, through the clouds to the vastness, to the vast open. These two little, you know, symbols changed it to be even more direct.

No, no, no, this is very clear. You just immediately are all the way at the bottom of the universe and you're at the top of the universe. Right. So that's tōutián chéndǐ, and immediately there's a mention of what in Zhineng Qigong is the, you could say like a visual image of the vastness, the openness, the blue sky.

The reason why the blue sky is because Zhineng Qigong uses many different traditions that came before like a form of Buddhism, the Tibetan Buddhism where the blue sky is the most important, sort of like mantra for them in Tibetan Buddhism. You refer to the blue sky as the openness. I'm referring to my notes here on the screen.

Basically, it is you, the first note, the do, is the openness. You are the in between what is the heaven and what is the earth. But you go beyond the heaven and beyond the earth, and there you are in between. That is the first movement. 

Now, this in between, kind of puzzles me. Because, if you, if you really go all the way, then there is no such thing as an in between.

Then, you know, it is, yeah, I am the earth, the, the earth, I am the blue sky. It is, it is, it is, it is. For me, it is the mind that makes the separation. Now, I might be wrong here with what I'm saying, but I it's, I said why I'm a little puzzled. Because, or maybe, yeah. It's also because Chinese, we can't translate Chinese.

That is, one of the issues, any English word we, we use might not a hundred percent, match with what the Chinese actually mean. But in my understanding, the, the, it is, it is true oneness. It is not. Yes, me and the sky. We are one. That is already separation because I'm talking about me and the sky, right?

It is. It is true oneness. So, I just bringing this up because it puzzles me. I don't know whether you've, you've, you've learned anything about that or. 

Yes, yes. So there are different aspects to what you're saying. Well, I can address the last one first. It's, of course, you understand it. Zhineng Qigong is about the unity of man with nature.

So if man and nature are one, there is no man, there is no nature, just like you're saying. If I am above and in between the, the above ness and the below ness, then where am I? But, then, zi neng qi gong is very practical. You see, it's not about some high, ah, beautiful idea, no. How do I make this real for myself right now?

Instantly. Not later, not a minute, maybe not now. And so, well, in zi neng qi gong, we talk about three dan tians. Right, the upper in her the middle, which is, where the five organs meet, and the lower, which is the lower Tantian. So they correspond to these very fantastic and wonderful pointers to our greater reality.

I can access some of the heaven in the head, I can access some in between the heaven and earth in the middle Tantian, and I can access the The energies of the, of the, what is below in my lower dantian. So, this is very important to remember, and it's great that you mentioned it. This is what, Zhineng Qigong seeks to marry them both, always, every moment.

Never, there is never a divorce between them, they're always together. Right. In other words, the theory and the practice are one, they're one, it is really a manifestation of consciousness. It is not the product of some person making it. 

So if we, that is how we start, you know, the head touches the sky and the feet firmly on the ground or through the ground in the later version.

Now how do we continue? What is the next verse? 

The next u xīn sǒng yì chóng, then expanding, what is it that is expanding? It is you, the indomitable spirit, in relation to your body, mind, person that you have. It is you. In the eight verses, before the eight verses, there's a preparation about the contact with the body, the relaxation of the body.

So we didn't cover that, but that is pretty obvious. So then, xīn sǒng yì chóng, then after expanding, infinitely above, infinitely below, we get to expand infinitely, let's say in front of the body, behind the body, to the right of the body, and to the left of the body. So the way in which it is described in a very simple way is that we can begin by visualizing the place where the body is located where it is practicing.

And then say, oh look, there's your house. And then you go outside of your house and then in the neighborhood, and then the city, and then your state, and then your country, and then your continent. And then beyond that. And beyond. And beyond. Beyond. And then also in the other direction. In all directions. 

Yes.

So it is, it is always from the coarser to the finer. It is from the material to the immaterial. 

And I'm also finding again, this practical point that you mentioned earlier, because again, it's not, you know, some fancy guru sitting there and just talking about oneness. It's very practical because it's a reference for us as human beings.

Now, everybody can imagine expanding through, you know, his house or her house and the neighborhood and so on and so on. So it is a very practical way of getting me to that state rather than just, you know, putting on a little candle and, and saying, you know, now you are, we all want, right. 

And attempting to transcend the nature.

It is not a transcendental science. It is a transformative science. It does not seek to go beyond or meditate it away or whatever. No, you see exactly very broad. This is how it is This is how I feel right now, but then you transform it and then you prove to yourself. Yes I must be this indomitable spirit.

I can do this the other aspect is in xin song yi zhong we begin to the process of blending The internal energy of the body mind with the external energy of the Huyuan qi the original qi spirit You which is the indomitable spirit that we are, which is here, there, and everywhere, and nowhere, you know, the emptiness aspect of it.

But this is where, again, it meets the practical sense, oh, this is how my body is doing. Then, oh, maybe I can begin to expand from there and see if it blends with this other experience of myself, which is maybe not located where this body is. It is beyond that direction, beyond that direction, beyond that direction, beyond that direction, beyond all directions.

And this is a key, this verse is really, really, really important. Even this verse, you can use it as a practice. I would recommend, this is of course my experience, but I recommend this be taken very seriously. The blue sky, well, what color blue sky is this? It is a perfect blue sky. There is no cloud in it.

It is absolutely pure, like vibrant, full of liveness. That is the, that is the, the information, the chi of the original spirit. But it's got a presence, which is like, wow, you know? So if we really can experience xīn sǒng yì chóng, then everything else is very easy. Because then in the next verse, guāi jǐng, nèi jǐng, then we, the instruction is allow your body mind to become externally respectful, outside, and internally quiet.

But what it really means, in my sense, and I, for many, many, many years, I have experienced other people attempting to learn this. And they have a problem with the word respect. Some people do. But the word, and maybe even the original word in this verse is really to become, allow oneself to become reverent.

But it's not something that I'm forcing myself to do. I'm making, oh, I am so disrespectful. I need to be respectful. I need to be. No, no. Isn't it, Qigong? It's not like this. No, it is an invitation, an invitation to remember I am the indomitable spirit. This is who I am. And so each verse, each preceding verse is a preparation for the next.

So after I already blended my experience in all directions and with my, my, the way how I feel right now, the way that you feel right now, whoever is watching this, the way that you feel right now, this can be transformed just by us speaking about this right now. In Zhineng Qigong, the theory and the practice are one.

So when we, what that means is that consciousness who we really are is everywhere with us always, including right now. It is not waiting. It is also not not waiting, but it is there. And if it catches a glimpse, oh, I am, they're talking about me, hmm, I am interested in this. And then the experience of consciousness immediately begins to interact with the body mind.

Right now, this can be a possibility.

Then, Then, the reverence comes naturally. Oh, I am so wonderful, so great. And therefore, that makes me be reverent to myself. It's not about respecting somebody else. It's, I can respect myself. 

Absolutely. I mean, it is, it, I I would also use the word appreciation. If you appreciate who you are and if you appreciate, you know, everything, then it is automatically you are respectful.

It just follows out of this AP appreciation. So it's not an instruction that everybody quiet now, be respectful. It is, a really, a, a reminder of how beautiful things are. And that evokes the respect within me for these wonderful things, including, you know, who I am. 

Yeah, the word appreciation, I think it is fair to use.

It is good in that, it really, what it really is, is that I'm just knowing who I am. Actually, I'm just rediscovering, rediscovering who I am. I'm not, it's not something I'm applying to myself. I'm cutting my head off and putting a new head. No. I'm just rediscovering, oh wow, I am, maybe I am different from what was thought.

But this thought, quote unquote thought, it's just a reference framework. It's just a form of conditioning. It is just a memory. It does not exist. I make it, I as a person, I make it exist, re exist over and over because I don't, I haven't been given the opportunity to open to the, this opportunity of, being wonderful and open and relaxed.

And where do the eight verses take us from there?

Then after the third verse, we have passed this kind of a challenging area where the transformation already potentially has taken place. Xin Cheng Mao Gong, then the traditional simple description would be, my heart is like a, a well of clear water. My heart, my, my inner being, and, but it, the, the water aspect is very important.

Images are really important in Zhineng Qigong, especially in the eight verses. Because the language in the eight verses uses a very peculiar form of poetic description, which is traditionally called picture form language. Picture form language, of course, is very close to the way the Chinese is written and read and spoken.

Because you look at a picture, a pentagram, and there's not a concept of the word. You just see the pictures. But especially with the eight verses, You don't think, oh, what is blue sky and what does it mean? No. You see blue sky. You see, well, you see earth. You see, you know, the different elements. You do your best to see it, to visualize it.

And the information of the eight verses will come to you naturally if you make this effort. That is my experience. I, I'm, you know, just like anybody, I don't know anything. And then, you, you make the effort to really understand it, just follow very simple directions. Oh, you, no, you need to, just try to see it as it tells you there.

Very simple. Dynamicate hard. Very simple. And then, the, it comes to you somehow. How? Because we are this. unlimited spirit, this, this, unconditioned, being. 

And I love how you say it comes to you naturally, because in a way, when we look at, yeah, the, the mind is clear and the periods assemble, this is the, or the translation I have here for the fourth verse.

This is not, again, it's not an instruction that is more a description of where you are. Already, you know, after you've done the first three verses, it is basically that it, if they say the mind is clear, it means nothing else. But, we have let go of the framework of the reference framework. So this is, there's an absence of the reference framework.

This is why the mind is clear. So it is describing. So it goes perfectly with what you're saying when you say, now it, it comes naturally. It's, it's not, it's not something I need to do now. It's just describing where I am. 

Yes, the, the other important word in the translation from the Chinese in this version, we're saying, oh, for you, who is the indomitable spirit, then the next thing is the word let, L E T in English, let.

In other words, allow it, allow for you to go through all these verses. Let it be, let it, let, allow yourself to become reverent, respectful, quiet. Allow yourself to be open and spacious in all directions. Allow. And so it's let, allow. It's not about do it, shut up, stop what you're doing and be like this. No, that is not what it is.

Sorry. It is a poem. It is an invitation to, like, when you were saying before about the, the, the, the popular video, the, the song, when it is sung, then people experience, oh, this is a, this is a nice thing to experience. Like, I'm invited. I can, I can be enjoying it. It is an enjoyment, 

right? 

It's not supposed to be, you know, tasked to put me down and punish me.

Yes, yes. 

And then I was mentioning the, the quality when I met, was talking about the, the visualizing, the reflection, why the water? The water can reflect. You can see through it, but it can also reflect, depending on how you look at it. So, Shincheonmalgong is beginning to let that, that quietness of our being reflect both the inner condition of the body mind and the condition of the vastness, the openness, the blue sky.

So they can begin to become open and maybe come together and become, you know, affected by each other. This is really the purpose of the eight verses, is to, for the blending of the body mind, the Torsten body mind, the Federico body mind, whatever our reference frameworks might be, yours might, they might be different personally, but it doesn't matter.

There is a relaxation of the reference framework. No, this is like this, that is like that. No, this is like a welcoming. Oh, maybe I can just relax that, you know, it's like attention, you know. So this reference framework is very directly linked to the condition of the body mind, very directly linked. So then I can be, oh, they can begin to merge, I am very, there's like a, the silence is beginning.

Our true nature is to be very silent. There isn't like the running thoughts. These running thoughts are really what is feeding the reference framework constantly. They go nowhere and they begin nowhere. There's just, it's a universal process, you know, it is, this is what's, what is taking place. 

Yes. 

But if I become aware of it, I, the indomitable spirit, it's going to end very quickly, like this.

Oh, I forgot myself. I was pretending to be limited to this. You know, little body minds. It is not to diminish it, it is to make it greater. To, to make the body mind, wow, even, I even have this wonderful body and experiences, you know.

It is not trying to transcend being human and being the spirit. That is ridiculous.

And that takes us to the fifth, verse because you already said, you know, that the thoughts come to an end, and There is a 

preparation for them to begin to come to an end. Yes. Right. So the next verse is yi nian bu qi, which in the literal translation from what I recall in the Chinese means no thought arises.

Right. And that is different from the translation I have here. And I must say, I think your version is more correct because what I have here is no distracting thoughts. As if there was a distinction between a distracting thought and a non distracting thought, which I don't think there is because, you know, thought is the thought.

And the thought is basically my past repeating itself over and over and over again. So I like it. It's the reference 

framework. Yes. It is 

the reference 

framework. So that is a very pertinent, description, of course It is useless to just differentiate between a thought and a distracting that they are equivalent Well in the sense of what we call thought I put it in quotation marks because real thought Is the thought of consciousness which does not require some intellectual process to be manifested.

You simply, you know what it is, you say what it is, you do what it is. That's it. Yes. It's simple. It's like, Oh, let me think. No, that is the reference framework. And this is the very pertinent, the spinning wheel, like, you know, the, so Because there was xīng chéng, I was able to allow myself to be xīng chéng mào gōng, then, only then can I be qǐ.

So I'm really making contact with the, the emptiness. It, it appears to be empty, but it is not really empty. So that's the, there, there is a phrase in Chinese which is, very important. Let me see.

I'm not, I'm sure I'm saying it wrong, pronouncing wrong, Ang.

It appears to be empty, yet it is not empty. It is the openness. And the openness, and the openness is where I am, where the intelligence, the real, our real intelligence is there. And immediately, as I speak of it, immediately begins to resonate with my body mind and my in my central, middle dantian, it's like there's a lightness, there's like, there's a yes.

Because. What the 8th verse really is, in my experience, is to remind me I am a yes. I am a yes that has no opposite. There is no no to my yes. There's just yes. Oh, this is happening. Oh, she said that. Oh, it is raining. Oh, my car broke. Yes, it is final. Oh, there is a Torsten. How nice. Yes, yes. It is really to change our reference framework in a way to dissolve it.

There will be a new reference framework when they get, you know, re established, you know, we still have to be human and do things and whatever. But the new understanding is reflected in fundamentally, I am this openness, I am this affirmation, I am this like, enthusiasm. It is not excitement because excitement comes and goes, but enthusiasm can be sustained for a long period.

And so these verses, in Yi Nian Bu Qi, we're really establishing no thought arises. Not because I'm making myself stop it, because if I allow myself to be Xing Cheng Mao Gong, then naturally the next is I will become Yi Nian Bu Qi. Oh, I am empty. There's no thought there.

And you made a distinction though. You said, I think I forgot your words, but let me just try to rephrase it in my ways. You said that if there is no thought, then there is the space for the real thoughts to come up. But these thoughts are not the results of my Processing and, and, thinking about something and analyzing, et cetera.

They are just, you know, because I am in time, suddenly it's quiet. So it's the first time I can actually listen to intelligence and what comes up then might also look like a thought to me, but it is something different, right? It is not a thought in the same sense. It is really me tapping into, you know, into the intelligence or into the, Qi Field and picking up the information that is already there.

And this is why, you know, so often when we have these insights or, you know, all of these brilliant ideas, they usually come out of nothing. They're not the result of me sitting over a paper and trying to figure something out. And I think this is, but basically, you know, where we are right now, the adverse is what it is preparing us for, because it continues with the mind expanding into infinite, infinitive space where, you know, I am, in direct contact with all this intelligence.

And I can basically now channel this, and, and be that. 

Yes, you mentioned one word also, before I forget, I wanted to say it, we definitely are organizing the Qi field. Hopefully we have enough time to revisit this sense again. So yes, what you're saying is basically what I am saying, what I remember saying.

What I'm really looking for in the use of the eight verses. It's really what Dr. Pang calls the conscious use of the mind. The conscious use of the mind. Who is the user of the mind? In the ordinary reference framework, we say, No, what are you talking about? I am the mind. How can there be a user of the mind?

I am the mind. No. Here, the 8th verse is saying, No, actually, you are the indomitable spirit. You, the intelligence. You, the openness. You, the affirmation that has no opposite. You are the one who use the mind. And then, when that is taking place, then you can say, we all know, I think we all understand what this is.

It's just insight. Where does this come from? It is a moment of creativity, a flash of insight, oh yes, now I know what this is. Now I am ready to proceed with this project, this idea. It's about creativity. So the eight verses really is a fantastic formula, because the original name is the eight formulas.

It's a formula to, create more, to be creative, to you, I am the creativity, you are the creativity. And then naturally, it comes out. Whatever it is that you or I are interested in as a body mind is, you know, we have our own experiences. We, we can use this. It is very practical. The eight verses was the before and after in the understanding of body mind.

all kinds of qigong in China. After, after Dr. Pang came with zhineng qigong and developed the eight verses, most of the pre established qigong systems say, oh, we also need a qi field, we need to copy it, we need to, in their own way, because they understood, wow, we have been working in the dark, you know, now we have the light.

So, and there is maybe beyond the scope of this, but zhineng qigong was also very much interested in improving any kind of process. process of production, of agriculture, of manufacture, of science, of whatever. You can use the eight verses to become creative, and then, whatever your field of interest, you will be better at it.

Because then it's you, it's not just a reference framework. Right. 

I think this is a very important sentence. We, you know, it, if you, the real creativity comes from you and not your reference framework. And that is what unfortunately most of us, find so difficult because the reference framework has become so dominant in our lives.

Now, the, everything I say, everything I perceive goes through this reference framework. And I have an opinion about everything immediately. And I have my own views about things immediately. And all of this is taking away and making it impossible to connect to who I really am and use my creativity and, to, and, and to create all these extraordinary things.

And I think that is, you know, if you look at it, I'm just reminding of an artist that I think an artist, when they are in the flow, especially As they would probably, they would probably use this word. They have no reference framework there. They're just completely out of their mind. It's funny that we say that, but they are out of their mind and that is when the creativity comes.

And that's when they, they create this most amazing artworks. And so, I love what you just said, although I just forgot what it was, but I, but I mentioned it to everybody. So I hope our listeners, but it's okay. I also forgot. Okay, good. 

Well, see, when we, when we are creative, we don't even care what we are saying.

We are just enjoying being curious, like, this is so enjoyable. Let us play with it. It is about being playful, being curious, being open. The, and what you were saying also before you, I don't know how I forget, but the reference framework and overall what it does to the Indamitable Spirit is closing it down, closing it down.

Shut it up. Stop it. It's closing. It's closing. Zhineng Qigong is about the understand another aspect is the understanding of opening and closing. Why do we get stuck? Because we got stuck being too close or being too open. Either way. No, we need to restart. Opening, closing, you know, closing, opening. We need to do this.

And this is a very fundamental understanding. If I'm living from my body mind is afflicted by the reference framework, like what you said, opinions, this, that, the other, I'm basically closed. Nothing gets in. Nothing gets out. 

Now, I want to make another observation here. And it's, Because we are, it's kind of the reference framework is the evil thing.

But when you said it's about opening and closing, it reminded me that the reference framework also serves a function. So it is really about both. Like, you know, the simple example is if I go to the traffic light, my reference framework tells me that, you know, if the others have read, I can walk because, you know, they will not.

Across the road. So I have some ideas of how I can go through life. So the reference framework can be very practical in many respects, but it's about opening and closing. So knowing where is its place, where do I use my reference framework, because it helps me to get through everyday life and where is it in my way to see a reality as it actually is.

And, and therefore, you know, taking away from my creativity, et cetera. 

That i I really appreciate your distinction. Of course, it is not about good or evil, or bad or whatever. It's not to say the reference framework is bad, of course. We, like you said, the reference framework is what allows us to be having this conversation right now.

Because we learned, we went to school, we learned the words, we know how to use the computer. You know, it's very, it's a very complex reference framework. We need to know how to use it so that we can have this communication. It is absolutely required. But the important distinction that you make. Also is, well, I need to see reality and this reality, the reference framework is a reflection of reality.

It is not evil. It is a, it is an approximate reflection of reality. The key distinction here is when is the reference framework useful? And when do I know, Oh, actually that is a sickness that I am having. The sickness that I am having is not seeing things as they are. In other words, that everything is a flow, and there's nothing good or bad, really, there isn't.

It is the interpretation that my body mind is giving it that makes it good or bad. But everything is just a flow. So if I do not see reality correctly, I will project my, you know, let's say, illness into the outside world. And if it's going to feed back into me, yes, you're right, I am sick, and now you are sick too.

So it is just to be reasonable. So the way that I understand it for the human being in our nervous system that we have is that most individuals who have a sick reference framework, they do not feel safe in their life. They feel like they are threatened. This is the primary, basic understanding, apparently, of most humans.

It is not safe. It is not safe for me to exist and know that I am this wonderful being. It is not safe for you to exist and know that you are this wonderful being. It is not safe for either of us to know this together. Oh, you are wonderful. Oh, he is wonderful. How great. We are wonderful. That is, that is the complete opposite of the reference waymark of humanity right now.

For the most part. It is not safe to exist, to be who you really are. No, no, no, no, no, no. You do your job and shut up, you know.

There's no fun in it. There's no playfulness. There's no curiosity. 

We are a little distracted now from the eight verses, but I think this in itself would be a great topic for another podcast in the future. So let's put this aside and hopefully you and I have a long future together and let's move to the next verse here.

Well, I know that we went a little bit far along the branches of the eight verses, but it's still the eight verses, actually. It's actually very important, because we are really, what we're really doing with the eight verses is that we are, seeing the reference framework for what it is, as it's represented in my body mind, my body experience, and then we are reconditioning it to become regulated, or by opening and closing it.

So we are setting the, we're setting the ground where this can happen. So, after, No Thought Arise, because it results from Xin Cheng Mao Gou, then there's Xian Zi Tai Kong. For me, it was the, the first verse that I said, Oh yes, I, this, this will change my life. This, this, I didn't even know what it means.

This will change my life. And so it did. So then, we are combining all of our, you know, our internal experience, our, inner feeling of the body, the body mind, it is becoming to be quiet and blended with the outside. And now we pour everything from this body mind to the vast emptiness of the blue sky.

Just expand it and dissolve it everywhere. And then, because there is yin and buqi, there is nothingness. There's like a neutral zero state, and then the expanded, it is everything that I have been able to make contact with in my body, my person, my thoughts, feelings, whatever, emotions. Now it is sent to be dissolved.

Everything. Basically, let it go. Oh, I'm so holding on to it. Now, now, time to let it go. Let it go. So there's a big close and there's a big open. And then there's a pause there. Usually if we're practicing, you know, it's coming, there's the image of coming down through by way. So this is, remember, heaven and earth are meeting, right?

There is still a body, there is still the vastness of the no body, and they are somehow meeting. And this verse, It is, really the, you could say the maximum exposition of myself as the indomitable spirit that is not located anywhere. I don't know who that is. It has no name. Who is that? Who am I? So there's a, this moment of like very great openness, a great, great, great possibility.

Wow. It is a incredible potential to really experience it.

It's just amazing to really experience it, to know it, and to repeat it. Become addicted to it until this becomes your reality. This is the ultimate purpose of the eight verses, these simple eight verses, that is all. If I can really allow myself to become touched by it, then there will be incredible payback, you know, amazing payback.

We have to understand in the eight verses, it's not just something that somebody made up. It is consciousness itself saying, oh, look, this is a way for, to remember who you are. And then there's a person, there's the, you know, social context, there is the historical context, you know. The way that the eight verses were developed includes Taoism, Confucianism, and Buddhism.

All of whatever, you know, and all the little things connected to that. So it is a way of putting everything in Chinese civilization into one little instruction. Everything. It is very beautiful.

There is an aesthetic beauty to it. Whoever is watching, maybe if you are touched by this, I am this potentiality. What that means is that I am, I am a no thing. I is a no thing. Therefore, if it is a no thing, it is not limited. It is unlimited. And then we can begin to experience the next verse, if you're ready.

Then from the, from the vast openness of my being, I pour myself back into this body mind. See, so there's a vast openness and now there's a relatively vast closeness. 'cause I'm closing back into the body. This. This part of the eight verses is fundamentally important to be able to go on to have an ordinary day, an ordinary moment after this.

This is fundamental. I have to be shen yi dao te. The original, the Huyuan qi, is being poured into my body mind. I am being updated, actualized, into, oh yes, now I remember again, I really am this indomitable spirit. I really am this, potentially, this openness. This playfulness, this curiosity, this enthusiasm.

This is who I am. This is who I is, is. And then the serenity that brings with it, Oh, I can rest. I don't have to be troubled in my reference framework that I'm just a little, Personal, just a little fragment, just a little machine interacting with all the other machines everywhere. Like the stupidity of the world and the absurdity of everything.

Oh, that stupid, you know. But this is to transcend and transform. Simultaneously transcend and transform. And then the emphasis is on beginning to really become sensitive to the body again. Really, allow it to come through all the channels, collaterals, meridians, parts of the body, to really sense the body.

To feel the lightness, the openness, that I really am, originally, but in this body mind. Bring it back.

Then, and only then, does the 8th verse make any sense.

Basically, I am actualized, harmonized, with the qi and the information. All is well. Only then can you really say all is well. Why is it true all is well? Because I am all. I am not separate from all. Therefore, there's no problem. Nothing can hurt, nothing can hurt me, really. If I, if there is no me and you, or billions of others, we are all one.

Then there's no threat. I'm not, I'm not in any danger. There is a harmony that can begin again. And this is the important aspect of, in the musical scale, we begin a new octave. A new do, and so the eighth, the eighth, verse is the new do, the new beginning. And now that I am harmonized, I am knowing myself as I really am, more of myself as I really am.

Then I can just carry on and do whatever. 

Right. 

When I see a red light, I will stop. When I am hungry, I will eat. When I speak with Torsten, I will know how to speak English. But I'm not going to be projecting, you know, the reference framework or less of this kind of it's really the sickness. It's the sickness of separation.

Oh, it's me and it's him. I don't like him. Oh, he doesn't like me. Oh, we have a problem. You know,

I think it's important because we were talking so much about the indomitable spirit. So it's so easy to get to stay in this sphere, but you, you point out that with the last two verses, we actually, you know, so, so to speak, coming back into our body mind, because that is also a reality. And, yeah, the indomitable spirits will go on forever, but our body and mind existence will not.

And, And so, you know, both are true at the same time, just as we talk about empty yet not empty. So both are true at the same time. And, but with this experience, with this knowing, you know, I can go through life in my body and with my mind, with this incredible lightness that you just described and with this incredible happiness.

I don't have to look for, okay, what makes me happy today. I am this happiness already because I understand that. And this is, I think, you know, if you, if you meet a Qigong master, Qigong masters, all the friends that you have, all that I have, this is one thing that is so typical for them. They're always happy.

And it is because, you know, they have this, this inner knowing and they know everything is, everything is good no matter what. And, but at the same time, you know, they are living their lives very practical and, and creating, you know, wonderful thing in their lives. And this is why the last two, two, two verses kind of, you know, initially I thought that, oh, that's, that's a, that's a, It's a pity we have to go back here.

It was also nice being the spirit, but it actually is very important because it's, it is this practicality, also that you mentioned earlier. This is about supporting real people in their real lives. I mean, Dr. Pang was a no nonsense man, basically. He, he said, we need to come up with something that is easy for people to understand.

It's hugely effective and that has a scientific basis. And here we go. Here's the Zhineng Qigong. And, and in a way it brings us back to that with the last two verses. 

t experience of the body mind of the human, of the Torsten or the Federico, is actually an experience of consciousness.

It is not the other way around. You see, that is really, in my experience, what it really means. It is consciousness having an experience of being a human body mind person doing things. It is not the experience of a body mind person having a consciousness experience. That is the wrong order. 

Okay. 

So the eight verses is saying, no, let me show you the right order.

The right order is you already are this indomitable spirit. You are not this limited entity pretending to be or trying to be or aspiring to be. No, already you are this, already.

I, we don't have time, but there's, there's many other, you could call them exhortations. In other words, strong communications in the eight verses before the eight verses about basically, wake up, wake up to who you really are. Take, take this lumber off your eyes. Wake up.

So it is, you know, I, I actually, I, I do, I have met some people that, Some that were studying Zhineng Qigong that, did not really have an appreciation of the eight verses and, I can, I can imagine that it might appear to be something that is kind of very rote and, mechanical or something that is forced on me.

There is an incredible, wellspring of, potentially, of, of, great aliveness, if I can really connect with, it's not really about the eight verses, or Dr. Pang, or Zhineng Qigong, who cares about that, ultimately, it's about, it's about you, it's about I, it's about consciousness, it's about, oh, I, this is a tool that I have given myself to remind myself, Of how I can be happier, really.

It's really about being happy. 

And it is a tool. So, I was just thinking if, you know, some people, Yeah, if, if you really, if you really understand that fully, You don't, in theory, you don't need the eight verses anymore. Because, you know, then that's just who you are, and you've got it. And then the eight verses, you call it a reminder.

So you can still, you know, use it as a reminder, but it's more like, yeah, I knew that already. Right. So, but, but it's also something else because, you know, it, it opens up another question for me here. When you say, you know, Dr. Pang says, You start with being, being the, the, this, the, the spirit, and then you go to the body.

Well, most of us, you know, think it's the other way around within our limited existence. We have to find the, the unlimited, consciousness. He's basically using, suggesting the other way around here, right? Yes. Which is. 

Yes, I wanted to clarify, and it is, I can, I can, I cannot imagine anybody that would be exposed to this information.

Let's say, let's say day one, okay, we're going to show her this, that she's going to say, oh yes, of course I am this unlimited. It is very unlikely. My experience is probably very similar to everybody else's. I'm practicing qigong, let's say, u pang qi, left qing qi, and pour qi down, or something like this.

And the reference is always, oh, me, I am doing this, I am expanding to the vast, and then I'm bringing back the me, I, whoever that is. For many years, decades, I don't know who that is. I have no idea. But something is not right, you know. It's me. It always comes back to me. Oh, again, you know. But then there's a, because of the, the way that Zhineng Qigong is designed, it is designed to naturally support you to discover for yourself, no, actually it is the other way around.

It is not me as a personal entity expanding and gathering and this and that, no. It is the totality, with the experience of Federico happening, taking place, that is what's actually the reality. But it is natural. It is not about forcing, it is not about punishment, it is not about rules. No! That is not how it is.

You like that, don't you? 

I love, I 

love 

it. I love it. I think, and I think it's a very, very nice closing word, Federico, because we are pushing our time a little bit here. But I think it was totally worth it. It was, I think it's a fantastic, information that we have shared here with each other.

And I would like to thank you so much for your input here. And I know that many, many people will be inspired and get new ideas and look at the eight verses in a different way. And maybe, you know, practice it more or use it more as a tool. And, so I want to just mention that in the show notes, there is a free ebook on the eight verses.

So for anybody who wants to learn more and have different views, et cetera, et cetera, Please don't download the, the ebook, which is free and which gives you, you know, more information on the eight verses. You will also notice for those of you who listen to the podcast for the first time, that we always end our podcast with the eight verses, so you will soon have the pleasure to To listen to Katrien Hendrickx singing the eight verses.

And, for, just for, for the sake of it, there was another podcast with you, which was also very interesting thing. So we are putting this in the show notes as well. So if people want to listen more to you, please go to that episode. And of course we will have your website details, in the show notes.

So people can get in touch and learn more if they would like to. 

If you want, I, I can also add or put a page on my website with, the notes that I prepared for this so that you, it can, people can access it. 

I think that will be absolutely fantastic. Please do. 

Very good. I, and you know, as, as always, I always want to always get into even more things, but I know that there is a limited time, but I, my sense that we, we, we, we were able to basically just get through the, the bare bones of the structure of the eight versus there's.

Well, there's a lot more.

We trust you enjoyed this conversation and we invite you to subscribe to our podcast so we can stay in touch and notify you of future episodes. We will end today's episode with the eight verses meditation. Performed by Zhineng Qigong teacher, Katrien Hendrickx. Enjoy.


To get your free e book on the 8 verses meditation, please check the show notes below.