Music, the Ego & the Qi field in Qigong - Farinaz Kheradpicheh

"Empty but not empty" (Kong kong dang dang, huang huang hu hu) is a phrase in Zhineng Qigong that describes the concept of something existing even in nothingness. In this episode Farinaz Kheradpicheh explores how she connects with a transparent existence through her art, the essence within the void, and the Qi within the Qi field.

As a young woman in a foreign land, Farinaz felt the separation caused by language barriers. Where language was limiting, she found connection in music, playing the violin in an orchestra, because there was “feeling”. And in that space of feeling, with her understanding of Zhineng Qigong, she connected with something even greater— she connected with emptiness itself.

Farinaz shares how playing in an orchestra parallels her practice of Zhineng Qigong. In both, becoming one with the whole often means letting go of the ego. She offers valuable insights on grounding, embodying kindness, and accessing the "empty yet not empty" state during performances and Qigong practice. Learn how to embrace the present moment without attachment to past experiences and discover ways to integrate music into your Qigong journey for a deeper, more joyful practice.

Discover the profound connection between music, the ego, and Qigong with renowned violinist Farinaz Kheradpicheh.


Mindful Moments
- Discussing the Eight Verses of Zhineng Qigong, verse 1 “Head touches the sky, feet stand on earth”.

- Music and orchestras as metaphors for aligning intention, letting go of the ego, and becoming one with the whole, similar to Qigong practice. The importance of grounding to be truly present.

- How language is a separator but feeling unifies. Qigong’s emphasis on seeing the bigger picture, being a part of something greater and being part of the present moment.

- Empty but not empty, how Farinaz uses this to understand the ego's role in grounding and connection. The power of the group Qi field and intention in performance and reaching a unified goal.

- New Present Moment theory: Embracing an open mind each day rather than being attached to previous experiences and past negative information. Focusing on what resonates in the moment.

- Learning from Zhineng Qigong to be kind to the inner self and understand the body’s messages. Nurturing the inner child for greater openness, joy, and presence.

- Boundaries: differentiating between awareness and focus, picking up information from the Qi field without boundaries, practicing connection without being stuck in one way.

- Transitioning from natural intention to conscious intentions practicing kindness to oneself.

- Discussing various ways to access Zhineng Qigong through theory and practice.

Links & Resources


More about Farinaz: https://farinaz.nl/en/home-english/

Discover how other practitioners use Qigong in combination with art: https://hunyuanqitherapy.com/our-hunyuan-qi-therapy-community-in-action/

Learn all about the Qi field:

🎙️🌟Explore more podcasts, events, and resources visit:
https://www.zhineng-qigong-students-hub.com/

📘📚 Get your FREE E-book on the "Eight verses meditation" by Dr Pang:
https://www.zhineng-qigong-students-hub.com/exploration-of-the-eight-verses-of-zhineng-qigong-meditation-e-book

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Transcript

The miracles of the celebrated 8 verses meditation can be found in every aspect of our existence, and it shows particularly beautiful in music. Sharing from a life long experience as a violinist in a renowned orchestra, Farinaz helps us to connect with the essence of the 8 verses and the principles of Qigong.

Let us explore how Qigong inspired his music and equally how music gave valuable insights Into the world of Qigong. My name is Torsten Lueddecke and this is the Wisdom Qigong Podcast.

Hello everyone, this is Torsten from the Zhineng Qigong Students Hub bringing you the Zhineng Qigong Community Podcast. Today, I have Farinaz with me and she was so kind to offer to pronounce her last name herself because she says, I'm hopeless and I will never be able to do that correctly. Farinaz, please give us your last name.

Kheradpicheh 

But you don't need to learn my last name, Farinaz is enough. 

Okay, that's great. , you said, yeah, she just explained that even her website only has her first name, , because it is so difficult for people to pronounce otherwise. So welcome to the show, Farinaz. Thank you. Our topic today is Qigong and music.

Now, , my first question obviously is what does one have to do with the other? 

Actually, everything. I mean, , in Qigong, we learn about eight verses, an , I, , I am just retired, and I've worked 41 years in orchestra, and, , when we start, we are all in, on a, on the set, with our instrument, doing all the, , all the songs, and playing for ourselves.

And at that moment, the conductors go by, the Concertmeister will stand up, and that is for us, is the moment to stop. And in Qigong, they said, stand up, head in blue, blue sky, feet to the earth. And in orchestra, we know that the tune that the Concertmeister give us happen the same, because we have to take this tune.

So we actually with having one tune to each other, with each other. We are connecting all of each other, the lasers and then all the streams, and after three minutes, then comes the conductor, and he is standing there, and we know all, we are quiet, so we go inside, and it's only, we are never being heard.

conscious about this. And when 16 years ago I learned for first time Qigong and, , I learned about how I have to grounding, how should I use my central line. That was a, that was a beautiful word for me to connect my music when I am sitting with everybody and then open from the earth, from the body with each other and to connecting.

What we did always From going inside the music to going together, that we are not important ourselves. And that I love so much about playing in an orchestra, because when you are solo, , your ego is also playing, so I have to be good, I have, , to show you, I am, , I am not really connecting, , , I feel separation with, , , people, but the music, music is not separating, the music just connecting everybody together, and in orchestra we are not important, I am not important when I play violin.

It is, everybody is important, and we go just to this emptiness, to this Qi field. So it's, it's exactly the same, it's exactly the same when we are going to the, , opening ourself, when we go through our body, and we thanks our body, so you can be very thankful to the sounds that your instrument is close to your heart, my, my instrument in the way I am and, , and this consciousness.

give me more joy. I always had a lot of love and joy for my violin. And what gives me also a lot of joy and consciousness about many different things, because it's not always so poetic and so nice, because we have sometimes, it is very exciting work, we have to have 100 percent concentration, and we have, , it's not, it's not your way of playing.

, we get a lot of pain in our necks, arms, because, , that is not naturally ways to work about eight hours on a day. We are not allowed to go for a walk if we have a pain in our back. The concert has to go on. We don't have, are not allowed, , to stop when our arms get pain. But with the consciousness of Qigong, I learned a lot how I can be at that moment, if another information from the love and the peaceful connection with each other to my body, and it was always miracles who that worked, and then at once was gone, and I could carry on and play more.

You've, you already brought up a lot of beautiful metaphors that really, , you know, I wasn't aware of, but I think there's so much we can find in your, in how you describe, you know, how an orchestra works. It's, , reminds me of people coming together for a, for a practice, for a joint practice. And everybody is just all about his daily lives and all kinds of thoughts going on.

And then we start to build the Qi field, right? Which is also where we align to one intention. And where we align to, you know, a common goal, so to speak. And that is what's happening in the orchestra as well at that moment. And we know from the Qi field how much, you know, more we can achieve if the Qi field is created by a group.

And, , so, , , Just as you said, most people obviously in the orchestra are not aware that this is what they are doing, but you are. And, , and, , yeah, and, and I think it's, it's a beautiful, you know, beautiful way to find the parallel in your work of music and your world of music. , when you look at Qigong and even the eight verses, , that you just, you know, mentioned, , there's so much that you actually need to do to ground yourself before you go into the performance.

, yeah, that's a really, really beautiful. Is there any, anything else from the eight verses that sometimes, you know, maybe you, you use as a tool or that you re that you connect with, you know, when you're playing, when you're in one of these situations, , in the orchestra? 

Yeah. You know, I like, , I like very much that to don't say eight verses, words by words.

I like the meaning, the feeling of eight verses that for me is, and that is why also I always appreciate it. Thanks. explain to the people, and I let them to find their own world. Because, you know, I am from Persia, I have grown up with another language, and then English, Dutch language, French, , the language can, , bring me a lot of separation.

And I don't like, I don't like the feeling to be separate. And, , and that happened also when I learned. So it was, I couldn't, I always say to my husband, those are not enough words. It is translated from Chinese to English. And then I am transforming to the Netherlands, and that is not the feeling of the words, I have to know the feeling of the words.

When I went to the China, then they really started to tell about what is it, what, because the culture thinks something else when they say blue sky of, , that your mind is clear, just, , I mean, it's a country of the mountains. Netherlands is a country of, of, , not mountains, so you can't imagine what for those people, or for me from Persia, the, , imagination of those words is in my body, in my blood.

And so what for me is important is when they said the mind is clear. That is with the music, and with the, , when you are in an orchestra, when we start, the concertmaster gives the tune, and the conductors come and start like this. At once, it's nothing. We shouldn't have anything. Of course, sometimes comes things, and, , , you hear the things around of you, but you have the music, so, And that is, we are learned from child time, so when the music is there, we interpret our eyes with the music we hear it in our ear, and then happens something very new, and, , with also with the 8th verses, we are standing, looking at one point in front of us, and give all of our sense to this point.

That happened also, I mean, actually, in orchestra, we are playing with our eyes and ears and all the sense. But they are all together. They are not, they are not one by one. And that is also the meaning of standing up and look at one point, give your sense. It's not that we don't have those sense. It means that all of our sense become one.

It's not individual and that we go one with the emptiness of around of us and this point. And we bring this emptiness back to ourselves. So that happened. Actually, all the time with the music and in orchestra, that we go to the emptiness and the emptiness comes to us in combination with the sounds. And, and that happened because I am not important anymore, you know, I am not.

Farinaz, just my songs, is important than others, and it is all together is very important, and that is, , yeah, it is so, so nice feeling when I find this feeling also back to the, with practicing with Qigong, and that was, , I always had also like feeling, oh, I feel I feel great when I am playing, but why I am not feeling the same when I am at home, cooking, of, I love my, , life, but was very different feeling, very different satisfaction feeling than, , , before that I learned to cook.

And when I find Qigong, I had a torch also to have that when I am not playing violin. So that was very nice. 

I think, I think you're bringing, you're bringing up a very interesting thought here. When you, you know, when I raised my question and you said it's for you, it's not so much about the individual lines of the eight verses.

For you, it's about the, the, the complete, , idea, the, the, what the eight verses actually mean. And that is just, you know, the analogy with your music as well. It's not about the individual note or the individual line of music. It's the whole composition. It's not about the individual, , , musician in the orchestra.

It's about bringing all of that together. And, , the idea to isolate one note or one line or one musician doesn't really make sense in the, in, in this context. And so, , yeah, without, , me knowing, , that question actually brought up another beautiful parallel, , a beautiful metaphor for, for how Qigong works as well.

And, , so I think that's a, that's a great learning and, , it just shows me how stupid my question was, , to ask you for which line, you know, would work way best for you. , but then you're touching, , you know, for the second time you're touching on something which is about, you know, you not being important and how beautiful this is when you just immerse yourself and become one with the orchestra and when it's about the complete picture and not just an individual person.

, I think that is a, that is a, you know, a great observation also compared to the solo artists, you know, wherever you spoke about the ego and your, your, your, the focuses on you and how well do I perform rather than just letting yourself be taken away with like a, with on a wave, , with all of the orchestra or like everybody in the chief yet.

, so I'd love to hear a little more about that and, , how that translates into your daily life. 

Yeah, sometimes it's so difficult to put words on what you feel, and, , of what you experience. So, I mean, it is, of course, not all the time, because sometimes, is it also difficult pieces we have to practice, or at home, or But you know yourself, you have been to the concert hall.

They are a concert that you forget everything, and the music just take you. And at once you see that you are 45 minutes later, and yeah, it happened something. It happened, , and for me, if I can, I would put a word on, is it that we are actually, for first, that at that moment, we are in now, in this moment, and we don't, actually becomes in a state of not knowing anything.

I mean, I am working very hard. I am doing very much work, but behind, behind those working, lots working, is something that I don't know what is it. It is nothing. And that's happened also when I am practicing, , , my Qi body. I am, when I am really connected with Qi field, is that, that I am, In a state of don't knowing anything, and I am nothing, and, and just connecting with this emptiness.

And that is what Master Liu very often said, , emptiness but not emptiness. So it's very nice, it's really that feeling, it's, it is experience. I always say it also to my students, so, , you have really, I say things but you have to experience and find your own word for it. And, , so it is the information in the information is the emptiness.

In the emptiness. And the little music of course comes different line of music that touch you, remind you something. And that happened also with Qi Field. , we are very connected. Advance comes something from when you are two years old. Oh my God, I don't want to have that. But when you're conscious, you can look at, and then you said, okay, , it's enough and you again becomes connected.

So that's happened also with beautiful music and again, comes something difficult. So then you feel, Oh my God, I feel my arms. Happens also with keeping G by D, but happens also with play. 

But then you 

are conscious and then you can. , , just, , changing. And what beautiful is, is also what I learned from Shigun is how, how important it is I should be kind to myself, to kind, be kind my inner child, and separate my body and myself.

You know, my body can be tired, but my inner child just need to be loved, and, , to be soft, and that is when I remember myself, when also I have play, I am playing and get pain, I just remember, so fun, when I said, very stupid, if I say just, I love you, in myself, to my arms, at once you feel it, that goes away, and then I can't.

carry on. And, you know, I think, , be practicing and knowing the language of Qi field and information that the Qi field for each of us, , combining our lifestyle, , is very important that we learn to hear this information. And that is the same in a good concert. I have to hear now, the first violin goes lower and the second violin goes now harder.

I have to allow them to play harder. I am playing the first violin and now it's the solo. So that is the information at that moment. Maybe we practice a lot, but at the concert is again another different information. And that is, With practicing, each day is the same. So each day is a different information for me from past, from future, transforming now.

So it's really very challenging. I can't say anything. 

It's 

[Laughs]

My name is Leilah Cupido, and I'm the project manager of the Students Hub. Our team is constantly adding events, teachers, videos, and other resources to take your practice to the next level, improving the quality of your life and the life of the people around you. We do this work for you, so please use it.

Now, Farinaz brings me to something you just said when you spoke about, you know, you're in a state of knowing nothing now, but at the same time you say like, you know, when you're in this state, you pick up certain things like, you know, you have to play a little harder, a little louder, this or that. I mean, I'm not a musician, so please excuse my language here.

So I would say, just like Master Liu said, empty yet not empty. , I would say like. I would say you, in this case, it's know nothing yet, know everything because you do pick up the information that that is necessary at that moment, and you have an understanding of the total without being able to put any words on, , , , to it.

, but you just know, , yeah, people that are, do not practice Zhineng Qigong would say intuitively. , but yeah, I would say how you're, you're picking it up from the Qi field through your Yi Yuan Ti, your, your consciousness. Because you're in a state where this information flows freely and you don't put any boundaries.

, so you can, you can pick up these things and you know exactly what to do. , is that fair to say, or am I making it up here? 

No, it's, , I'd like everybody to find their own world. So you say beautiful is your understanding. So it's okay. , it, it is, it is not just one board for those things. It is many different experiences.

And, , if you find that And trust our own experience that is also important. 

, and Farinaz. , Do you also, I can see how you use Zhineng, Qigong, you know, and how you make the parallels in your music and in your work. , do, is there anything you could, , you know, offer to our audience the other way around where they can use your, an analogy, , of music to help them with their practice?

, is there anything that, you know, comes up for you? 

I think everybody does already. Most of people love the music. You can look the children. I have a grandson of two years old. He's just singing, singing, singing whole days. And , so don't. Don't think that you can't play music, or you can't sing, or something.

It really doesn't matter. It's that, again, it's our ego that thinks that music should be perfect. No, just when you feel something in your heart, and you feel to put a sound on, you have really to do it. And, , if you are at home, and you love some music, just sing it if you want, , To play new instrument.

Just do it. It is, everything is okay. It's everything Qi. The music is also Qi. And, , when you have a time to listen the music you like, , just connecting, you know. Sometimes the music brings us back to our childhood, to sadness or something. Allow yourself, but don't stay in a story of childhood. Don't stay in a story of sadness.

Of course you can look yourself, oh I was three years old with my mother, I listened to this piece, but That is it. That is enough. And carry on. Go farther with, , with what the music gives you. A nice feeling for now, for your inner child. How you can be more kind to your email child, you know, so that, , and that helped, you know, is it, it is not something that we can learn and it stay, it is like brushing our teeth, it is like breathing.

We have to breathe each moment of day, we have, otherwise we will die. My heart has to, , work each day, otherwise I am not here. So with those things, we think also I practice enough, and I have to know it now. I played violin from my nine years old, but always I had to practice. So with Qigong is the same, and remembering ourselves, , that, oh, am I kind to myself?

Am I kind to my inner child? , how can I be more soft when I am practice? How can I be, , when I do lift you up softly, not correct. I don't like to be correct. So that is why I don't teach the movement because I think It's okay, but how can I be kind and soft when my hand pushed down or when I push up, I can't do it correct.

But with the not kindness to myself, to my inner child, to the chief field. And I think I really believe everything is love and for I, we forget very often. That we are love. So my mantra is also forgiveness to myself that I forgot that I am love. And that happened all the time. It is not something that I can do it just one day.

I have to do it ten times in a day. I have to do it each day. And also in a practicing. And that is also connecting with the music. So I can't It is a choice I have. It is a choice how I listen to your music. Am I want, do I want to have the kindness from the music? Connecting with my inner kindness? Make it something, you know, bigger and, , more love, more peaceful?

Or am , just want to listen and feel myself miserable and thinking about how unlucky I was? And I am coming from this country. My father was that, or my mother did that. It's also, it's allowed, it's, do it for 10 years, but I think that is enough. Then you have again, choice to be kind to yourself and to others.

Look at the future. It is different than past. The future that is kindness and love. And that is the universe and that is the Qi field. I don't know, it's difficult to find it. 

That's beautiful. You said beautiful. And, , yeah, when you spread it. Because the kindness, everybody, you know, we kind of know we should be kind to ourselves.

It's like everybody tells us, be kind to yourself. But it's one thing knowing it, and it's another thing to actually practice, actually being that. And, , and I love what you said when you said, you know, you also have to forgive yourself for forgetting that. Because in our everyday life, you know, we are just busy here, busy there, that problem comes up, this problem comes up, and we forget being kind to each other, to ourselves.

And, , And to be soft, 

you know, also very soft, that is also very important to be soft. 

Now, the moment we forgive ourselves, it is an act of kindness. as well. Right. And, , so I think this is a, , a very important message you've got here. What I'm, but I, what I want to come back a little bit for the music, because what we haven't touched yet is that many, many of us, we actually practice with music.

So, when we do our daily Zhineng Qigong exercises, we use music in the background. And , it is, you know, partly to tune us into that state that you were just describing. So we will probably listen to something, you know, soft, gentle, meditative, , how do you feel about that? 

I don't practice myself with music at all.

Oh, that's interesting, that's interesting. No. And, , but. But I love to hear sometimes if I'm somewhere with the music, but I know that there are people then they become dependent of the music. , it was funny today I practiced with music, , from, , Hartoor, with a special resonance of, , 43 years. So I wanted to feel how is the Qigong field, but, , , it is very good.

It is everybody's allowed, but if they know that it is not. It is one of the other. I am not depend of the music and depend, music is not depend of me. So it is to be connected and again to allow ourselves to find something new. Again going to don't knowing anything. Then we, you know, sometimes we practice and it is a wonderful practicing.

And next day is just, is a war. You know, everything, , all the touch comes and, , it's also very good practicing, but we don't know. So we are just looking always with what we experience from past. And, , if I am allowed myself to give some, , , yeah, advice to the people. I will say, please don't use your experience from past.

Just each times be open from, from this moment, what will happen and, , then combine the experience later on in your day. And that happens beautiful things in your day. But during practicing, don't think, oh, yesterday it's more and more, it was more connecting. But, but even if the thoughts comes, if even we feel not so quiet as the day before.

That is also very good exercise, because we need to, to see those things also, and when we are connecting with the Qi field, , that happens. And that happened with me when I practiced, when I was young, I, , I didn't know about psychological everything, but when I started to play violin, all the thoughts of the time home, my sisters, my brother, my mother, everything would come to my head.

And I was just playing, playing. And then at once I thought, no, stop. Just look at your thoughts and then start to play. So it's very interesting to, , to be honest with yourself and accept everything. And using the challenge to go to know unknowing things. And, , yeah, it is challenging. It's very difficult, but it's really challenging.

What you said earlier, when you are teaching Zhineng Qigong, you don't focus so much on posture and the correct movements. What is the focus of your teaching when you have students? 

, I focused, , very much, , grounding, for me, is the most important thing, central line, and, , good Qi field. For me, it's very important to be in a good chi field and connecting.

And, , really grounding, for me, is the most important thing, because I said also to people, I said, if you are religious and you, you are looking for a God, don't look in, , Upstairs, looking him. . He's all, he's there. And when you are grounded. , , you open yourself, you are more to the back. So that is, that is our Yi Yuan Ti

Of course, we know it, but if someone doesn't know about that, so it's, if you are in the back thing, looking things from your backside, then, , and grounded, then everything, you see that there, there is no, not one way of thinking. There is a, everything is possible, everything is true. But when I am front. And my thought goes just up.

Then, I want to be, , right. What I am telling you is right. So that happened also most, most of the time with discussion. You see that, then you'd have to look at the people they are discussing. They are always like this. 

Nobody is 

discussing or shouting to each other from the backside and grounded. So, , and of course, , you know, you have to know, But, , and you have to practice, but in certain way, , I mean, I don't mind if we are doing pushing up and down that one arm is lower than other or, , fingers higher.

But if I see the person really feel the Chi and feel it, the connected that the Chi give it us and we give it back, I think is that how beautiful the experience to be connected and to be trusted. And, , that is, that is very important. 

I think that is one of the beauties of Zhineng Qigong because there are many ways to access, , the, the, the, the power of Zhineng Qigong.

And we see, you know, Dr. Pang said, the theory is the practice and the practice is the theory, which means you can access, you know, all the, the wisdom and the benefits just through via understanding, that is a possibility. You can access this, just as you said, by being grounded and just immersing yourself in the Qi field.

But I also know that you can access this by, by doing the correct posture and the correct movement. So it's really different angles that you can use. And as you said a couple of times today, everybody is different. And one thing might resonate with me and it might not resonate with you. So whatever access point I find, you know, works for me is the right, the right way for me.

And somebody else might use a completely different, , different point. We can also see this, you know, in the, in the masters, you know, we've got very different masters that, you know, some of them are very particular with the movements and the postures and it's really useful and people benefit a lot from it.

And others don't really care, So much. And they're also very successful in the work that they do and people benefit immensely. So, , I think it's, it's, it's a very, very nice to see, you know, teachers from all angles and I can totally see why this teaching method or why these factors are so important to you.

, because it's, it's, it's a perfect mirror for, for your whole life experience and how you've created beauty and, , through your music all those years. Right. 

But what happened also with the music, when we learned, I learned to play violin, you have different teachers, that one is more for opening your heart, and another teacher was for the techniques that we have to learn.

So that is very important to know about both. And, , just changing from one teacher to another, and learn from everybody, and then make it your own thing. So, it is, what you said is 100 percent correct. You have really to know about all those things, about also the movement, why the pinch has to turn on, and, , and, , and feel it.

But the, the important is don't stuck to one way, that, that is right, what you said also. It is a, It is everything is right. Just what, what is good for you. Yeah. You said it beautifully. Yeah. 

And I think that's a, that's a great closing word, , Farinaz, because just as you said, don't get invested in a certain music when you practice.

Don't think it has to do with this music. Same thing is for the practice itself. It's not this way or that way. Don't be invested in either. Or, , you know, things might also work, , , different times, , very well for you. And on another day, something else might be, might be the better path. Right. 

Yes. Yes.

Yeah. 

Okay. Well, thank you very much, Farinaz. , it was very exciting to talk to you, , particularly because I'm, I don't know much about music. , so I was a little nervous to see, okay, what, whether I would be able to actually have this conversation, , but it went beautifully and thank you very much for your wisdom.

And for all. For all the beautiful music you were giving people in all these decades, , I'm sure you've created a lot of joy and maybe that's why you're such a joyful woman. 

Yeah. Thank you very much. My love to you and , . 

Thank you. And for all the listeners, we obviously have farina contact details in the show notes, so if you feel like you want to get in touch or you want to, you know, work with her as your teacher, , just, you know, use her website and , get in touch with Farina.

Yes. 

Thank you very much. Thank you very much. My love to Brita and I hope to see you both very soon to our house. 

Thank you very much. 

We trust you enjoyed this conversation and we invite you to subscribe to our podcast so we can stay in touch and notify you of future episodes. We will end today's episode with the eight verses meditation performed by Qigong teacher Katrien Hendrickx.

Enjoy. 

[Meditation]

To get your free e book on the Eight Verses Meditation, please check the show notes below.